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Thread: Lawyers for Animals!!???

  1. #1
    JPSartre12 Guest

    Lawyers for Animals!!???

    Europeans do some wacky things, but this one is just plain insane. I'm amazed that this even made the ballot.

    Swiss reject giving abused animals a lawyer
    70 percent vote against idea; taxpayer cost cited as possible factor

    updated 2:04 p.m. ET, Sun., March. 7, 2010
    GENEVA - The result was emphatic: Swiss voters don't think abused animals need to have their own lawyers.
    It's a proposal that would never even come near a referendum in other countries, but the measure's defeat Sunday disappointed animal rights advocates, who say Switzerland's elaborate animal welfare laws aren't being enforced.
    Opponents of the proposal, including key farmers' groups and the government, had argued that existing laws are sufficient and appointing special lawyers to act on behalf of animals would be unnecessarily expensive for taxpayers.
    "The Swiss people have clearly said our animal protection laws are so good we don't need animal lawyers," Jakob Buechler, a lawmaker for the centrist Christian People's Party, told Swiss television SF1.
    Official results showed that 70.5 percent of voters cast their ballot against the proposal to extend nationwide a system that has been in place in Zurich since 1992. Some 29.5 percent of voters backed the proposal, with turnout at just over 45 percent.
    According to the country's only animal lawyer, Antoine Goetschel, public prosecutors are often unsure about animal rights and shy away from pursuing cases even if there is clear evidence of abuse. He said the cost of Sunday's measure would have been less than 1 Swiss franc ($1) per person a year.
    Tiana Angelina Moser, a lawmaker for the Green Liberal Party, said animal rights advocates would look for other ways to make sure laws against animal abuse are properly applied and those who hurt animals receive appropriate punishment.
    "It's definitely disappointing, I thought it would have been a closer vote," said Moser. "I don't think it's a 'no' to animal protection, but a 'no' for this particular measure."

    But in one high-profile case last month, Goetschel represented a dead pike after an animal protection group accused the angler who caught it of cruelty for taking 10 minutes to haul the fish in.
    The angler was found not guilty.
    Lawyers for abused pets? Swiss ax idea - Animal weirdness- msnbc.com

  2. #2
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    In theory, it's a good idea but...they need to work out the detail before it should become law.

    People who abandon/abuse pets should be prosecuted.
    People who hunt endangered species should, too.
    'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein

    "10 to 1 that in usual fashion, a post which breaks down an issue to its core will be completely ignored by the opposition as they go on discussing irrelevant minutia." - Archangel

    'It's not rational to judge something in the present on actions people took a thousand years ago.' - jyoshu

    'I AM your god, damit! And you will love me or, I will kill you dead.'

  3. #3
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandycane View Post
    In theory, it's a good idea but...they need to work out the detail before it should become law.

    People who abandon/abuse pets should be prosecuted.
    People who hunt endangered species should, too.
    And who's going to pay the fees for these canine councilers?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    And who's going to pay the fees for these canine councilers?
    Who pays for public defenders of the scum of society now???

    I would much rather my tax $$ was spent on prosecuting animal abusers than to be spent on defending human animals...wouldn't you?
    'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein

    "10 to 1 that in usual fashion, a post which breaks down an issue to its core will be completely ignored by the opposition as they go on discussing irrelevant minutia." - Archangel

    'It's not rational to judge something in the present on actions people took a thousand years ago.' - jyoshu

    'I AM your god, damit! And you will love me or, I will kill you dead.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    And who's going to pay the fees for these canine councilers?
    Simple..more taxes.
    Richard Dawkins quote..
    .'I dont think its a very important question whether Jesus existed. Some historians.. MOST historians think he did.
    I dont really care, precisely because its petty. Maybe I've alluded to the possibilty that some historians think Jesus never existed. I take that back Jesus existed........

  6. #6
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandycane View Post
    Who pays for public defenders of the scum of society now???

    I would much rather my tax $$ was spent on prosecuting animal abusers than to be spent on defending human animals...wouldn't you?
    No. I don't equate animals to people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    No. I don't equate animals to people.
    Atheists think that we are just clever primates..so maybe they do
    Richard Dawkins quote..
    .'I dont think its a very important question whether Jesus existed. Some historians.. MOST historians think he did.
    I dont really care, precisely because its petty. Maybe I've alluded to the possibilty that some historians think Jesus never existed. I take that back Jesus existed........

  8. #8
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    Atheists think that we are just clever primates..so maybe they do
    Or maybe that's all THEY really are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    Atheists think that we are just clever primates..so maybe they do
    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    Or maybe that's all THEY really are.
    Well primates anyway
    Richard Dawkins quote..
    .'I dont think its a very important question whether Jesus existed. Some historians.. MOST historians think he did.
    I dont really care, precisely because its petty. Maybe I've alluded to the possibilty that some historians think Jesus never existed. I take that back Jesus existed........

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    No. I don't equate animals to people.
    I don't either.
    A pig deserves more respect than a crack-head.
    'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein

    "10 to 1 that in usual fashion, a post which breaks down an issue to its core will be completely ignored by the opposition as they go on discussing irrelevant minutia." - Archangel

    'It's not rational to judge something in the present on actions people took a thousand years ago.' - jyoshu

    'I AM your god, damit! And you will love me or, I will kill you dead.'

  11. #11
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandycane View Post
    I don't either.
    A pig deserves more respect than a crack-head.
    You're starting to make me wonder. You think we should pay for lawyers for animals but you wouldn't give a dime to charity.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    You're starting to make me wonder. You think we should pay for lawyers for animals but you wouldn't give a dime to charity.
    First of all, I said it was a good idea in theory.

    I never said I wouldn't give a dime to charity.
    'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein

    "10 to 1 that in usual fashion, a post which breaks down an issue to its core will be completely ignored by the opposition as they go on discussing irrelevant minutia." - Archangel

    'It's not rational to judge something in the present on actions people took a thousand years ago.' - jyoshu

    'I AM your god, damit! And you will love me or, I will kill you dead.'

  13. #13
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandycane View Post
    First of all, I said it was a good idea in theory.

    I never said I wouldn't give a dime to charity.
    It's good "in theory" means that you wouldn't pay the costs for it, personally, but if it could be stuck on the wealthy or others' backs, you're OK with it then?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    It's good "in theory" means that you wouldn't pay the costs for it, personally, but if it could be stuck on the wealthy or others' backs, you're OK with it then?
    No. Not necessarily.
    But, I would much rather pay for an animal attorney than pay for a public defender of a crack-head.
    No one asked my permission to pay for public defenders, either.
    'Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.' A. Einstein

    "10 to 1 that in usual fashion, a post which breaks down an issue to its core will be completely ignored by the opposition as they go on discussing irrelevant minutia." - Archangel

    'It's not rational to judge something in the present on actions people took a thousand years ago.' - jyoshu

    'I AM your god, damit! And you will love me or, I will kill you dead.'

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    Europeans do some wacky things, but this one is just plain insane. I'm amazed that this even made the ballot.
    I thought you were all in favor people being able to vote on anything. How is you can hold that view yet think this is insane?
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