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Thread: Evolution versus Creationism

  1. #61
    Archangel Guest
    Nice links, posting alot of them always makes it look like you're blowing the opposition away. Unfortunately no where do any of them state that an evolutionary scientist discovered the next great drug due to his knowledge of anything. And what about this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel
    Oh please!!!!! Now you're concerned about becoming the victim of Creationists who will dumb down society with our antiquated beliefs ? Can you post one iota of evidence that there are not now and never have been any people of faith in the legitimate sciences ?
    No evidence that christians don't contribute to the advancement of science huh ? And can anyone imagine a more sweeping statement of classifying a complete segment of the population in a more bigoted way ? Shame on you, you hate mongering, christian fear promoting bigot.

  2. #62
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    Lying again Archie? Not once did I mention "Christians" the post is about CREATIONISTS do you need a definition of the word?
    For the purposes of this thread I'm confining that to the American Evangelicals who attempt to have school curricula altered to suit their own dogma.
    And how dare you blatantly lie by insisting that it's people who are evolutionary scientists who are discovering the cures for modern diseases
    YOUR WORDS.
    How else do you explain that pathogens develop drug resistance or the fact that the articals specifically cite "Evolution" and "Natural Selection" as the cause?
    Why pray when you can Google?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripskar View Post
    Lying again Archie? Not once did I mention "Christians" the post is about CREATIONISTS do you need a definition of the word?
    Leave it to you to derail with minutia. The point is creationists are christians so you are in affect saying the same thing. But the question still remains, are you saying that creationists have never contributed to any other sciences ? That creationists are dumbing down our society and preventing us from learning and excelling in real science ? Just so you know, Believers are not anti science. I love and respect the leaps forward we have made in all branches of science. Real sciences that is. Evolution does not fall into that category in any way, shape, or form.

    How else do you explain that pathogens develop drug resistance or the fact that the articals specifically cite "Evolution" and "Natural Selection" as the cause?
    Simple. Because people build up resistances to drugs. Are you actually suggesting that if I take the same antibiotic for one month. Then 6 months later I take it again and have built up a resistance to it, then I have evolved in that 6 month period ? No wonder you'll believe in evo. You'll believe anything.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    Simple. Because people build up resistances to drugs. Are you actually suggesting that if I take the same antibiotic for one month. Then 6 months later I take it again and have built up a resistance to it, then I have evolved in that 6 month period ? No wonder you'll believe in evo. You'll believe anything.
    Frankly is anyone surprised Arch has no idea how medicine works?
    "You are, of course, free to make your own calls on how much rationality you want to impose upon yourself." - Kronus

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by obvious_child View Post
    Frankly is anyone surprised Arch has no idea how medicine works?
    Not really. He seems to merely have a bit of knowledge about his sick, perverted version of god, but beyond that, his posts go to show that either he is lying about claim of being in his 50's, or he simply has not recieved any sort of education.

  6. #66
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    Simple. Because people build up resistances to drugs. Are you actually suggesting that if I take the same antibiotic for one month. Then 6 months later I take it again and have built up a resistance to it, then I have evolved in that 6 month period ? No wonder you'll believe in evo. You'll believe anything
    i never did biology, but is it not that the bacteria build up resistance to the antibiotics? Is that not exactly the point that archie is trying to refute? Not him, but the bacteria evolve?
    There was a demon that lived in the air. They said whoever challenged him would die. Their controls would freeze up, their planes would buffet wildly, and they would disintegrate. The demon lived at Mach 1 on the meter, seven hundred and fifty miles an hour, where the air could no longer move out of the way. He lived behind a barrier through which they said no man could ever pass. They called it the sound barrier.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mucusaur View Post
    i never did biology, but is it not that the bacteria build up resistance to the antibiotics?
    Hence why I made the comment. People can gain allergic reactions to certain drugs but that's virtually always genetic. Either arch is confusing resistance with allergies or he's completely full of #### and wrong as usual. I'm voting on the later.

    Is that not exactly the point that archie is trying to refute? Not him, but the bacteria evolve?
    Yes. But he won't see it that way.
    "You are, of course, free to make your own calls on how much rationality you want to impose upon yourself." - Kronus

  8. #68
    Archangel Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mucusaur View Post
    i never did biology, but is it not that the bacteria build up resistance to the antibiotics? Is that not exactly the point that archie is trying to refute? Not him, but the bacteria evolve?
    That's precisely my point. Bacteria doesn't evolve but builds up tolerances based on the antibiotics designed to kill it. That speaks to its immune system though, not evolution. Just as insects who have very short lifecycles have built up immunities to insecticides in 4 or 5 years time which boggled the mind of scientists until they realized that 5 years to some insects is 50 generations because of their short lifecycles. In 50 generations human beings can also build up resistances to many poisons if we were exposed to them in acceptable doses. So it isn't evolution, it's adaptation.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    That's precisely my point. Bacteria doesn't evolve but builds up tolerances based on the antibiotics designed to kill it. That speaks to its immune system though, not evolution. Just as insects who have very short lifecycles have built up immunities to insecticides in 4 or 5 years time which boggled the mind of scientists until they realized that 5 years to some insects is 50 generations because of their short lifecycles. In 50 generations human beings can also build up resistances to many poisons if we were exposed to them in acceptable doses. So it isn't evolution, it's adaptation.
    If you knew the mechanism with which the bacteria and insects "build up tolerances", you would know you are refuting your own argument.

    I'll let you try to figure it out. You are on the right track with the short life cycle and lots of generations of organisms coming along in a relatively short time (relative to us, that is.)

    You are a hoot, Archie. You are describing evolution, and you don't even know it.
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" - Bertrand Russell

  10. #70
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    Lin LL, Little JW. 1988. Isolation and characterization of noncleavable (Ind−) mutants of the lexA repressor of Escherichia coli K-12. J Bacteriol. 170:21632173.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

    Just to repeat what I've already presented: E.coli gene; LexA mutated giving resistance to the antibiotics used against it. When non mutant forms were wiped out by drugs the mutants remained producing a population of antibiotic resistant E.coli.
    That is evolution.
    Most creationists refer to it as "micro-evolution" but certain people don't even bother to find out what their own side has said on the subject...
    Why pray when you can Google?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripskar View Post
    Lin LL, Little JW. 1988. Isolation and characterization of noncleavable (Ind−) mutants of the lexA repressor of Escherichia coli K-12. J Bacteriol. 170:21632173.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

    Just to repeat what I've already presented: E.coli gene; LexA mutated giving resistance to the antibiotics used against it. When non mutant forms were wiped out by drugs the mutants remained producing a population of antibiotic resistant E.coli.
    That is evolution.
    Most creationists refer to it as "micro-evolution" but certain people don't even bother to find out what their own side has said on the subject...
    I understand that Micro-evolution is the adaptations and changes within a species while macro-evolution is the addition of new traits or a transition to a new species Ripskar. But creatures and organisms also ADAPT to their new pressures and challenges so adaptation is another function of biology that evolutionists either ignore outright or misplace in how they apply it. Or a third possibility is their definition of Micro-evolution is in fact wrong and adaptation should be the term used to describe the function that takes place.

    Either way, let me make it clear that macro-evolution is the absolute fraud of the scientific community. What ever it's called, micro/adaptation can and does happen in the real World. But never leading to a new species from an old one.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelmoose View Post
    You are a hoot, Archie. You are describing evolution, and you don't even know it.
    It sort of reminds me of another forum I frequent where they get creationists arguing that evolution "breaks" the Second law of Thermodynamics. In those arguments, it is hilarious to see that the creationists almost discover the sun (to paraphrase this "almost-discovery", they basically say that for it to follow the SLT, there would need to be a giant body outside of the earth providing a constant input of energy. ). So, what we see here with ARchie seems to be typical of mosts creationists.

  13. #73
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    Evolution, because of the evidence. (The evidence starts a few paragraphs down.)
    "It is impossible to understand reality without the use of mathematics"

    - Richard Feynman

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    ....

    But creatures and organisms also ADAPT to their new pressures and challenges so adaptation is another function of biology that evolutionists either ignore outright or misplace in how they apply it. .......
    Please explain how the organisms "adapt". What is the specific biological procress of this thing you call adaptation?
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" - Bertrand Russell

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    What ever it's called, micro/adaptation can and does happen in the real World. But never leading to a new species from an old one.
    Observed instances of speciation.
    "It is impossible to understand reality without the use of mathematics"

    - Richard Feynman

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