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Thread: "Testing for Illegal Drug Use"

  1. #1
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    "Testing for Illegal Drug Use"

    "Testing for illegal drug use is a current issue, demanding great attention in school and in the workplace. Examine both sides of this issue – the benefits to society, as well as the individual’s right to privacy. "

    Arguments I have so far (from Youdebate)

    PRO 1

    The main purpose of random school drug testing is not to catch kids using drugs, it to keep them from ever using them. Once their using drugs its harder for them to break their addiction. With many employers drug testing its very important for a kid's future not to use drugs. Drug use is responsible for many crimes. Its worth the inconvenience for all our future.

    CON 2

    One of the fundamental features of our legal system is that we are presumed innocent of any wrongdoing unless and until the government proves otherwise. Random drug testing of student athletes turns this presumption on its head, telling students that we assume they are using drugs until they prove to the contrary with a urine sample.

    CON 3

    "If school officials have reason to believe that a particular student is using drugs, they already have the power to require that student to submit to a drug test," said ACLU-NJ Staff Attorney David Rocah.

    CON 4

    The constitutional prohibition against "unreasonable" searches also embodies the principle that merely belonging to a certain group is not a sufficient reason for a search, even if many members of that group are suspected of illegal activity. Thus, for example, even if it were true that most men with long hair were drug users, the police would not be free to stop all long haired men and search them for drugs.

    PRO 5

    Peer pressure is the greatest cause of kids trying drugs. If by testing the athletes or other school leaders, we can get them to say no to drugs, it will be easier for other kids to say no.

    CON 6

    Some also argue that students who aren't doing anything wrong have nothing to fear. This ignores the fact that what they fear is not getting caught, but the loss of dignity and trust that the drug test represents. And we should all be afraid of government officials who believe that a righteous cause warrants setting aside bedrock constitutional protections. The lesson that our schools should be teaching is respect for the Constitution and for students' dignity and privacy, not a willingness to treat cherished constitutional principles as mere platitudes.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Article realated in www.medicaldisposables.us


  3. #3
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    My personal opinion, which I, admittedly haven't given much thought, is that these extracurricular activities are not mandatory. Since they aren't mandatory they must be voluntary. If they are voluntary, then the school should be able to place certain requirements on them such as drug testing. This would mean the due process is not circumvented, because the person is not being required to take drug tests, they are doing it voluntarily, in order to participate in something extra.
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  4. #4
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    I have been talking with numerous people about drug testing in schools.

    ALL the time they come back with, "it shouldn't be a problem if you're not using drugs"

    How do you even come back to that? Is that a Fallacious Argument?

    Thanks

    -Rycher

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUNxTime View Post
    My personal opinion, which I, admittedly haven't given much thought, is that these extracurricular activities are not mandatory. Since they aren't mandatory they must be voluntary. If they are voluntary, then the school should be able to place certain requirements on them such as drug testing. This would mean the due process is not circumvented, because the person is not being required to take drug tests, they are doing it voluntarily, in order to participate in something extra.
    What about administering drug tests to students who aren't engaged in extracurricular activities? Education is mandatory, classes are mandatory, should drug tests also be mandatory?
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rycher88 View Post
    I have been talking with numerous people about drug testing in schools.

    ALL the time they come back with, "it shouldn't be a problem if you're not using drugs"

    How do you even come back to that? Is that a Fallacious Argument?
    Usually you counter with the fact that the Constitution leaves no wiggle room on the matter. It doesn't allow random searches and seizures on the basis of "If you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide." The 4th Amendment specifically states the rules and guidelines for carrying out searches.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rycher88 View Post
    I have been talking with numerous people about drug testing in schools.

    ALL the time they come back with, "it shouldn't be a problem if you're not using drugs"

    How do you even come back to that? Is that a Fallacious Argument?

    Thanks

    -Rycher
    Yes, it is a fallacy.

  8. #8
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    Given the decline in the quality of our educational system, perhaps it is our teachers and school administrators we should be drug testing.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

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    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    Given the decline in the quality of our educational system, perhaps it is our teachers and school administrators we should be drug testing.
    Amen to that...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    Given the decline in the quality of our educational system, perhaps it is our teachers and school administrators we should be drug testing.
    And tying their salaries to the quality of work of the students.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    And tying their salaries to the quality of work of the students.
    That would be something I would love to see, it would provide a great incentive to get the teachers to get there students successful. BUT, I have just finished HS and I have seen first hand that sometimes it dosn't matter how good of teacher he/she is. Some kids just don't wanna work, and don't give a XXXX about school.
    How do you propose we deal with them?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    What about administering drug tests to students who aren't engaged in extracurricular activities? Education is mandatory, classes are mandatory, should drug tests also be mandatory?
    Yeah, I do. I have no problem with it, because I don't use.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by josephdphillips View Post
    Yeah, I do. I have no problem with it, because I don't use.
    Well that's you.

    Fortunately we don't have a standard of law such as "If you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide." The standard in place is "Innocent until proven guilty" and "either present a search warrant or GTFO!"

    Drug testing students simply for attending class is unreasonable. This has already been debated, and those supporting the mandatory drug tests lost painfully.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  14. #14
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    folks hav' been taking drugs for a long time.
    it started way back with the opium trade in China.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rycher88 View Post
    That would be something I would love to see, it would provide a great incentive to get the teachers to get there students successful. BUT, I have just finished HS and I have seen first hand that sometimes it dosn't matter how good of teacher he/she is. Some kids just don't wanna work, and don't give a XXXX about school.
    How do you propose we deal with them?
    pack 'em off to military school.

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