Poll: Should marijuana be legalized?

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Thread: Marijuana Legalization

  1. #61
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    Alright, well theres so much to say here... This is for Snakespit and Oliphant

    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit
    I never said it did sound safe while driving. I firmly believe that pot should be legal for adults to buy, and regulated in the same respect as cigarettes or alcohol. However, just as with alcohol, I advocate responsible use and sober driving. What exactly would be your objection to me sucking down a joint on my couch in the privacy of my own home?

    BTW: Alcohol is a causative agent in many of the motor vehicle accidents I go to, as well as many of the assaults, domestic violence scenes, and falls. I can't count on both hands the number of drunks I have dealt with over the last month. I can however say with certainty that I have not been to one call over the last month where marijuana was the problem. In fact, in over 13 years of EMS experience, I can honestly say that I have been to less than 10 calls where marijuana has been the problem. It happens, but not that often. Do you advocate prohibition of alcohol as well?
    First off, Snake dude, you admitted that the drug slows reaction time and causes sedation. you may sit there on your couch and smoke up, but come on! that’s not going to be the case with allot of people. People will get in a car and will drive while under the influence of the drug. Also, if you legalize the drug this occurrence will happen much more often. Also you stated that alcohol cause much more problems... umm... why is that? Could it be because its readily avaible. Now im not advocating prohibition because it will never work and it didn't work because the people had already had a taste of what it was like to have alcohol. Once you give the public something like that they will not give it up. Now if we were to legalize marijuana you would most definitely see a rise in situations where marijuana was a contributing factor. Also you say that it should only be given to adults... lol i don't know how long ago you were a kid but kids don't care whats only suppose to be for adult and whats not, they'll get it one way or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by oliphant
    At the risk of going off on a rant, I'd like to add another thing. The only reason pot is associated with crime is because it is a criminal act. Do you understand this?? That is why "shady hoodlums" are the ones with the pot. Whose who are willing to risk breaking big-time laws are the ones supplying it. If it were legalized, all this nonsense about the "bad kids doing pot" would fall by the wayside and you all would wake up and realize the drug does nothing more than create a harmless, benevolent high. NOTHING. It does not make you stab your parents, or rob a jewelry store, or steal money from a fifth grader, or get into fights, or .... and the bs-list goes on. My guess is that the only reason this mis-association ever came about is because the inherent nature of making any substance illegal prerequisites the fact that a criminal must be the one who obtains it. Remember when alcohol was illegal in America? Next thing we knew it was those pesky ole’ mobsters killing people by the dozen to supply alcohol. Those were the “shady high-schoolers” of alcohol. Hah! Now look at what we have today – no more black-market killings to obtain it! And the funny thing is that the negative effects of alcohol could be seen, legal or not! You still had your drunks, your moderate drinkers, your party animals, and your dry-mouths. What we have here is a misunderstanding due to confusing association with causality – NOT the same things! But I've no doubt I'd have as much luck as telling these things to a brick wall...
    Secondly in response to Oliphant. Now your right about a couple of things... Its not the Big boys supplying it that do the drug, its the little pot head who of course don't go around stabbing people. I don't think anyone ever said that it caused violent acts.... But let me clear something up because your deeply confused, i don't know if that’s from your smoking years or you just want to justify "the good times" you had. But its not only considered criminal because its a criminal act, its also strongly assisted with organized crime. Now its organized crime that supplies this stuff, and its a huge profit for them. And its a completely different situation then prohibition. Why? because you want the government to supply it! Government won't be able to compete with the product that organized crime will provide. Organized crime will be able to deliver a variety of different variations of the product, high potency, and they will be able to compete with government prices because of the taxes. The only reason why Organised crime couldn't compete with prohibition was because they couldn't commit with business' prices of alcohol, organised crime will compete and will win with government because government will regulate and tax the XXXX out of it. And i know what your saying "well ah, we'll just not tax it.." come on, we know very well that the government can't help its self, not to mention that if it is legalize that it will be done by a liberal and its in there nature to tax. Also when you legalize it you will be opening the flood gates to more and more users and consumers. And the ones that already do it will do it more; only making a larger consumer base for the organized crime, and will also allow for larger organized crime set ups, resulting in higher violent acts created by organized crime.
    What would Reagan do?

  2. #62
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    Alright... Cheese dude

    You picked the worst time to post, im going to bed i'll be telling you whats wrong with your post in due time so don't worry.

    And no i have never smoked pot and i never will.

    Umm... Maybe thats why i seem to be the one with the common sense here.
    What would Reagan do?

  3. #63
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    I think Evan would be in for a major shock if he had any clue as to how widely distributed pot users are within US society, at all socioeconomic levels.

    Marijuana is just a replay of America's failed experiment with alcohol prohibition. Morality legislation consuming abnormal enforcement resources in a supply and demand circumstance with no offsetting tax revenue.
    These are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. ~Groucho Marx~

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by georged
    I think Evan would be in for a major shock if he had any clue as to how widely distributed pot users are within US society, at all socioeconomic levels.
    And as such any roadway mayhem approaching alcohol related accident statistics would have already materialized.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin
    And as such any roadway mayhem approaching alcohol related accident statistics would have already materialized.
    'Reefer Madness' mentality seems to dominate the opinions of those who support the very expensive continued prohibition of pot.
    These are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. ~Groucho Marx~

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    you admitted that the drug slows reaction time and causes sedation. you may sit there on your couch and smoke up, but come on! that’s not going to be the case with allot of people. People will get in a car and will drive while under the influence of the drug.
    Actually, I know a lot of people who smoke marijuana, and the majority of them do enjoy it in their homes, and are responsbile enough to not go out and drive when they get baked. It is simple common sense and maturity. Yes, some will get in their cars and drive, but this already occurs far more often than you realize. You seem to be oblivious as to how many people in this country smoke marijuana.

    Also, if you legalize the drug this occurrence will happen much more often.
    And you base this on what? Or are you just telling us what you think will happen? Marijuana is already so commonly available that it is simple to obtain. With it's common availability it is not hard to realize that if someone wants to get high that they can do so without difficulty. I doubt that we would see a significant increase in DUI of marijuana simply by legalizing it. Look to Amsterdam...decriminalization and government control of marijuana seems to have worked well. I have not heard of a significant increase of traffic accidents and fatalities there.

    Also you stated that alcohol cause much more problems... umm... why is that? Could it be because its readily avaible.
    And yes, prohibition seemed to stop people from obtaining alcohol. Sure you're right. Alcohol causes more problems for a variety of reasons.
    1. It is far more harmful to the body than marijuana.
    2. Alcohol causes changes in mood and affect not common to marijuana, namely violent and irrational behavior.
    3. Alcohol is far more debilitating than marijuana in acute intoxication. We have all seen people drunk to the point where they cannot talk, walk, see straight, or even form a complete sentence. I have never seen someone high enough on marijuana to cause these problems. I do not advocate driving under the influence of marijuana any more than I would alcohol. But to say that someone who is high is as dangerous as someone who is drunk behind the wheel is irresponsible and simply wrong.

    Marijuana is already readily available. We have not seen the problems with pot that we have seen with alcohol.

    Now im not advocating prohibition because it will never work and it didn't work because the people had already had a taste of what it was like to have alcohol. Once you give the public something like that they will not give it up.
    Then you are a hypocrite. You advocate continued prohibition of marijuana based on the fact that legalization will make our roads more dangerous due to an increase of people DUI of marijuana. So in your mind, less people smoke up and drive because we have a prohibition against marijuana. So following your logic, if alcohol was prohibited and "less available", fewer people would DUI of alcohol, making our roads vastly safer. Yet you do not advocate prohibition of alcohol, and even state that you do not believe prohibition works. Which is it? Sad news, people already have a taste for marijuna even though it is prohibited. I agree with the statement that prohibition does not work.

    Now if we were to legalize marijuana you would most definitely see a rise in situations where marijuana was a contributing factor.
    Again, based on what? Do you have any examples or research to back up this statement? Or are you guessing?

    Also you say that it should only be given to adults... lol i don't know how long ago you were a kid but kids don't care whats only suppose to be for adult and whats not, they'll get it one way or another.
    They already do. Legalize marijuana, remove more of the street dealers, and make it more difficult to obtain on the street. Don't see too many moonshiners around these days...
    Last edited by snakespit; 05-22-2006 at 11:54 AM. Reason: sp.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    Alright... Cheese dude

    You picked the worst time to post, im going to bed i'll be telling you whats wrong with your post in due time so don't worry.

    And no i have never smoked pot and i never will.

    Umm... Maybe thats why i seem to be the one with the common sense here.
    I know this was not addressed to me, but I feel like I should respond anyway.

    1. Learn to use peoples names. It shows a little respect, and people might be a little more apt to return it in kind. Cheese Dude and Snake Dude are not screen names used on this forum. There are however Cheesejoff and Snakespit.

    2. Second, instead of telling people what is wrong with their posts, try telling them why you dissagree with their post. Arrogance is not a favorable quality in this setting.

    3. If you never smoked pot, and have no first hand experience with it, where do you get your information from? I am just curious as to what sources you are looking at, and how objective the information presented by these sources is.

    4. Suggesting that you are the only one here with common sense is rather myopic. What leads you to believe that the rest of us do not speak with common sense?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesejoff
    It should be legalised as it's no more harmful than alcohol or tobacco.

    Not only that but many marijuana users end up going onto harder drugs through contact with their marijuana dealer. Lesgalising it would break that link and actually reduce the level of drug addicts overall.

    Furthermore you could tax it and put the money into more police to clamp down on hard drugs, which would be a good thing.
    ah I see. So we take away the right of someone to do with their own body what they want to, unless they pay the government more money? Sound a little too much like bribery to you too?

    And how would clamping down on hard drugs be a good thing? How about we concentrate on the real crimes in our society, and let people kill themselves/ruin their lives if they want to. Why should I be spending tax dollars (ok, well hypothetically, pretend I pay taxes) to force someone else to not hurt themselves? Sound a little counter-productive? And then we complain about a defecit? (Obviously that's not the main culprit of spending, but you get the point).
    "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named Bush, Dick, and Colon. Need I say more?" - Chris Rock

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachvac
    ah I see. So we take away the right of someone to do with their own body what they want to, unless they pay the government more money? Sound a little too much like bribery to you too?

    And how would clamping down on hard drugs be a good thing? How about we concentrate on the real crimes in our society, and let people kill themselves/ruin their lives if they want to. Why should I be spending tax dollars (ok, well hypothetically, pretend I pay taxes) to force someone else to not hurt themselves? Sound a little counter-productive? And then we complain about a defecit? (Obviously that's not the main culprit of spending, but you get the point).
    I believe that the taxation being spoken of here is simply for the people who would buy and partake of marijuana. By legalizing marijuana, our tax dollars used to prosecute and jail marijuana offenders could be put to better use. I think that is the point everyone is getting at. Marijuana is a soft drug, in my opinion less harmful to our bodies and society as a whole than alcohol. Users of marijuana are not people that typically make life difficult for others. Crackheads, heroin addicts, alcoholics, meth users, coke heads etc... generally are the people causing the biggest problems, and often people who commit many of the real crimes in our society. We could refocus our efforts at these people, and leave the harmless pot smokers alone.

    I for one would pay a little extra in the way of sales taxes to buy marijuana legally rather than buy it on the street illegally.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by georged
    That's the driving force behind most US legislation with a morality position.
    What I was saying was, there are a lot of people who oppose legalization for other than moral reasons.
    Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think.
    -John Stuart Mill

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Shake
    What I was saying was, there are a lot of people who oppose legalization for other than moral reasons.
    Agreed, but morality is a tangible public force easily manipulated by political interests.
    These are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. ~Groucho Marx~

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master_Shake
    What I was saying was, there are a lot of people who oppose legalization for other than moral reasons.
    Reasons such as what?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit
    Reasons such as what?
    Why would drug dealers want it legalized?
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin
    Why would drug dealers want it legalized?
    As well, why would lawyers and officers of the court want it legalized? The drug system is a money machine not only for the bad guys but for the "good" guys too. Marijuana will likely NEVER be legalized simply because of the economic impact on the legal system....just as the Fair Tax will never happen because accountants and lawyers would have to find other teats to suck on.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim's trucking
    As well, why would lawyers and officers of the court want it legalized? The drug system is a money machine not only for the bad guys but for the "good" guys too. Marijuana will likely NEVER be legalized simply because of the economic impact on the legal system....just as the Fair Tax will never happen because accountants and lawyers would have to find other teats to suck on.
    Lawyers don't much care as possession busts for user amounts are now citations in most states with a shred of common sense, like a traffic ticket. Quantity, dealer and wholesale amounts, have gained the same level of distribution sophistication as alcohol did during that prohibition. With the exception of federal publicity busts, virtually anyone who wants pot can buy it from a very well-oiled and condoned system.

    LE is a different story. A large portion of their war on drugs federal funding is still tied to marijuana while meth creates their real problems, crimes against property and people. As usual, the feds are a day late and dollar short.

    As to the legalization of marijuana, I think its taxation potential will eventually override the morality and ignorance aspects. Most groups advocating legalization of pot have stayed with the civil liberty side of the argument. At the right time, as our economy continues its downward spiral, somebody will put numbers forth that look good to desperate politicians. With 34% of all Americans over the age of 12 and under 50 having tried marijuana, it's only a matter of time until common sense overcomes knee-jerk emotion and dogma.
    These are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. ~Groucho Marx~

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