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Thread: Taxation Without Representation

  1. #1
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    Taxation Without Representation

    Perhaps it's just me, but isn't taking social security and medicare out of one's paycheck before one is 18 'taxation without representation'? Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong?
    Whatever happened to Afghanistan?

    Does anyone know what year Kharabad was destroyed? (I can't find it anywhere yet. They all keep saying "early 1990's")

  2. #2
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    You are still represented, you just don't get to choose who your representative is. However, you can still write to your representative to try to get them to change their mind.
    --Jim

    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams

    Ronald Regan: A man who, sadly, does not remember that he once was President. However, on the bright side, he doesn't remember that Bill Clinton was ever President either.

    If you can't be a part of the solution, don't become another part of the problem.

  3. #3
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    How am I represented if I don't get to choose who represents me? THen aren't they representing someone else?
    Whatever happened to Afghanistan?

    Does anyone know what year Kharabad was destroyed? (I can't find it anywhere yet. They all keep saying "early 1990's")

  4. #4
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    It doesn't really matter b/c you are paying for benefits that you will receive in the future. SS for retirement/survivor/disability and MC for health. It's only a tax in that it is paid to the government.
    --Jim

    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams

    Ronald Regan: A man who, sadly, does not remember that he once was President. However, on the bright side, he doesn't remember that Bill Clinton was ever President either.

    If you can't be a part of the solution, don't become another part of the problem.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by wjim1269
    It's only a tax in that it is paid to the government.
    exactly!!! And I don't get to decide in any way, shape, or form whether I want that goverment program or not, or to vote for representatives/senators/etc. that would get rid of them. So therefore, I am being taxed, but not represented. Isn't this a bit hypocritical of the US gov.?
    Whatever happened to Afghanistan?

    Does anyone know what year Kharabad was destroyed? (I can't find it anywhere yet. They all keep saying "early 1990's")

  6. #6
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    No. It's unavoidable. You vote at 18. You pay taxes on income. If you choose to work before 18, you don't get to vote about it.
    Save me from this drunken jockocracy

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Chai
    exactly!!! And I don't get to decide in any way, shape, or form whether I want that goverment program or not, or to vote for representatives/senators/etc. that would get rid of them. So therefore, I am being taxed, but not represented. Isn't this a bit hypocritical of the US gov.?
    Look who started it. Look to who wants more of it.

    FDR our greatest president, he saved the world, but he also started a tyranical taxation system. Gotta give credit where it is due. No one ever voted for SS. Does anyone who is alive today every vote to have it? Textbook defination of taxation without representation.

    People who want more SS also believe in the inherent superiority of people in government to manage other people.
    "Stop running off and hiding behind your blasted constitution." - Anti-gunner at http://forums.evula.com/viewtopic.php?p=36700#36700

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Crim
    No. It's unavoidable. You vote at 18. You pay taxes on income. If you choose to work before 18, you don't get to vote about it.
    People younger than 18 are not full citizens.
    "Stop running off and hiding behind your blasted constitution." - Anti-gunner at http://forums.evula.com/viewtopic.php?p=36700#36700

  9. #9
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    No one ever voted for SS. Does anyone who is alive today every vote to have it?
    Actually, yes, everyone who is alive today has a vote on it. It is called a representative in congress. Congress could appeal the SS system at any time they choose.
    --Jim

    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. - John Adams

    Ronald Regan: A man who, sadly, does not remember that he once was President. However, on the bright side, he doesn't remember that Bill Clinton was ever President either.

    If you can't be a part of the solution, don't become another part of the problem.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    Perhaps it's just me, but isn't taking social security and medicare out of one's paycheck before one is 18 'taxation without representation'? Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong?
    Fact, participation in Social Security is VOLUNTARY in he 50 states!
    Fact, FICA taxes are imposed on the income of every individual. They are NOT IMPOSED on the WAGES of every individual (see 26USC 3101 (a) & (b)). [For all income tax acts of Congress, the US Supreme court defined income to be corporate profit]

    Chai,

    Join some of the groups on groups.yahoo.com on income taxes (go to subject Government->taxes)

    You can look a "1099" type job or try to get hired at a regular job without an SSN.

    It is way easier to learn about income taxes and how to eliminate them from your paycheck than having FICA stopped.

    Some of the replies you got were more like flippant and frivilous comments than constructive ones.

  11. #11
    montalban Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    Perhaps it's just me, but isn't taking social security and medicare out of one's paycheck before one is 18 'taxation without representation'? Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong?
    Do you drive? If so, do you obey the road rules that you had no say in?

    Do the taxes you pay - pay for the upkeep of services that you use?

    Look at it another way. When you were in school, did you pay taxes? Why should an unmarried person without kids be made to pay tax for your schooling?

    There must be federal taxes you pay... and there are perhaps many National Parks that you've never visited - why pay taxes for them?




    Even prisoners in jail have 'representatives' in government.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by montalban
    Do you drive? If so, do you obey the road rules that you had no say in?

    Do the taxes you pay - pay for the upkeep of services that you use?

    Look at it another way. When you were in school, did you pay taxes? Why should an unmarried person without kids be made to pay tax for your schooling?

    There must be federal taxes you pay... and there are perhaps many National Parks that you've never visited - why pay taxes for them?


    Even prisoners in jail have 'representatives' in government.

    Actually, I travel. In this state driving is a commercial activity and therefore a priveledge but travelling is a right. The "road rules" are part of commercial law that the priveledged must obey.

    No, they do not always pay for services I use and as a matter of fact there are some taxes which were imposed in violation of the state constitution and we are working on getting them changed.

    At the state level, it is part of my state's constitution that school tax is levied and collected as a given millelage rate on real estate property. So, if you own real estate then the answer is yes (at the state level). At the federal level, the answer is always NO!

    Federal taxes, sure we got excise, duties, and imposts. Nothing more (federal) within the 50 states of the union.

  13. #13
    montalban Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by bernak
    Actually, I travel. In this state driving is a commercial activity and therefore a priveledge but travelling is a right. The "road rules" are part of commercial law that the priveledged must obey.

    No, they do not always pay for services I use and as a matter of fact there are some taxes which were imposed in violation of the state constitution and we are working on getting them changed.

    At the state level, it is part of my state's constitution that school tax is levied and collected as a given millelage rate on real estate property. So, if you own real estate then the answer is yes (at the state level). At the federal level, the answer is always NO!

    Federal taxes, sure we got excise, duties, and imposts. Nothing more (federal) within the 50 states of the union.
    So do you believe in a 'user pays' system, where you only pay taxes on the services you use?

    There must be many national parks the government pays for that you've never used... you must be livid that they're ripping you off!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by montalban
    So do you believe in a 'user pays' system, where you only pay taxes on the services you use?

    There must be many national parks the government pays for that you've never used... you must be livid that they're ripping you off!

    Since you are in the southern hemisphere and standing upside down all day long, the blood must be rushing to your head and causing you mental problems .

    We have a 10% excise tax on outdoor sporting goods for wildlife habitats and wildlife management. The National Parks get some of these funds as well as donations and they are operating recreational facilities profitably. So, please learn more before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
    Last edited by bernak; 09-19-2003 at 10:48 AM.

  15. #15
    montalban Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by bernak
    Since you are in the southern hemisphere and standing upside down all day long, the blood must be rushing to your head and causing you mental problems .

    We have a 10% excise tax on outdoor sporting goods and the parks are operating recreatinal facilities profitably. So, please learn more before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

    So, you're saying that the Federal Government, that collects federal taxes, the same government that runs federal parks (I'm assuming that some National Parks are run by the federal government), don't spend any of your federal taxes on federal parks?

    If they do, and you don't use those parks, you must be really annoyed!

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