Poll: Will you vote for or against the constitutional treaty?

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Thread: Will you vote for or against the constitutional treaty?

  1. #1
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    Will you vote for or against the constitutional treaty?

    Will you vote for or against the constitutional treaty?

    At this point I am unsure how I will vote on the constiutional treaty, if it has already been rejected in one of the large countries then I may vote yes as an act of support for the union, comfortable that it is unlikely the the treaty will be passed in its current form.

    Otherwise I am uncertain, I'd like a constitution that gave more power to the European electorate.
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."
    -- Plato

    "The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."
    -- Thomas Paine

  2. #2
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    I suspect it is an irrelevance, for I cannot see us British voting in favour of it when we have a referendum and the whole thing collapses if just one member state votes "no".

    I used to be in favour of it, but I've recently watched the European Council make a mockery of European democracy with their behaviour in forcing through US style software "idea" patents against the wishes of the Parliament. The Council will be made even more powerful by the treaty, so I'm not sure I'm in favour of it any more. I wait to see whether the Parliament has the balls to reject the legislation or whether it just plays lip service to this unelected body.

  3. #3
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    I voted pie. I won`t be allowed to vote anyway. Our national politicians have allready decided that we are too stupid to get to say anything on this issue. I mean, we obviously voted wrong on the last step of the euro... And it doesn`t even matter which political party you will vote for in the national elections. The constitution is supported by parties representing 3/4 of our parliament...
    Knowledge is power. Hide it well.

  4. #4
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    Peter Sutherland, founding Secretary General of the WTO and former EU commissioner said that if the constitutional treaty was passed in every member state holding a referendum and then rejected by the UK it would be "the mother and father of a crisis".

    It looks like a French rejection, I'm kind of hoping for a French rejection and a more democratic re-draft.
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."
    -- Plato

    "The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."
    -- Thomas Paine

  5. #5
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    I voted pie too, can someone please explain what the constitutional treaty is?
    "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named Bush, Dick, and Colon. Need I say more?" - Chris Rock

  6. #6
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    Mmmmmmmmm Pie
    Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think.
    -John Stuart Mill

  7. #7
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    My problem with the EU constitution is that it seems to be aiming for lowest common denominator on public services - it seems to be run for the benefit of business interests. That said, the EU has already brought big benefits to the UK since we signed up to the social chapter of maastricht, in terms of working hours etc. So in general I'm undecided.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachvac
    I voted pie too, can someone please explain what the constitutional treaty is?
    EU consitution, in theory just gathering all existing treaties into one document, in practice introducing some limited reforms as well. A big bureaucratic behemoth of a document.
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."
    -- Plato

    "The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."
    -- Thomas Paine

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachvac
    I voted pie too, can someone please explain what the constitutional treaty is?
    Basicly it`s a new framework for the EU co-operation. Instead of being concerned with the (power) relationship between EU and its individual citizens (like your constitution), it is concerned with the (power) relatationship between EU and its individual member states.

    It also defines the role for certain institutions (such as a new "EU president").

    Here is a somewhat lengthy description of the constitution and what it`ll actually mean for its member states: BBC explains the new EU constitution

    Oh, and I think Wilting_laughters description is good as well. A Beurocratic behemoth in its most beurocratic and behemoth-y form

    Edit: re: poll

    Hehe... "I like Pie" is currently the most popular choice. There`s nothing like democracy...
    Knowledge is power. Hide it well.

  10. #10
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    I'm begining to regret including a pie option, but it has to be done.
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."
    -- Plato

    "The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."
    -- Thomas Paine

  11. #11
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    I myself am totally against the EU and I wish it was never invented, but I'm also a realist. I know that the clock can't be turned back and the EU is here to stay. So I'll vote 'FOR', because the new constitution will make the EU run more smoothly.
    Eh, what's this? A Republican from Texas that actually makes sense and can speak English?

    http://www.ronpaul2008.com/html/Issues_fx.html

  12. #12
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    I'm starting to lean yes for the same reasons. (Although I love the European project and the ideals it represents, if not how it's run).
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."
    -- Plato

    "The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."
    -- Thomas Paine

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamehuis
    I myself am totally against the EU and I wish it was never invented, but I'm also a realist. I know that the clock can't be turned back and the EU is here to stay. So I'll vote 'FOR', because the new constitution will make the EU run more smoothly.
    A very realistic attitude. I often disfavor actions from a personal viewpoint but accept the inevitable. As an outside observer who will ultimately be affected by the EU, I also believe unification is all of Europe's best strategy for economic progress.
    These are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. ~Groucho Marx~

  14. #14
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    Just a few musings that came to me when reading up on American consitutional law.

    Hmmm, if the consitutional amendment passes is the EU's fate going to reflect that of the United States?

    Will the "federal" government grow more and more and "state soverignty" be eroded as it has been over the history of the United States?

    Will the national governments eventually fade in significence to little more than a European "electoral college"?

    And what implications does this have for the wider world when one considers the question: what is the limit of expansion (if any)?
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."
    -- Plato

    "The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."
    -- Thomas Paine

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilted_laughter
    Just a few musings that came to me when reading up on American consitutional law.

    Hmmm, if the consitutional amendment passes is the EU's fate going to reflect that of the United States?

    Will the "federal" government grow more and more and "state soverignty" be eroded as it has been over the history of the United States?

    Will the national governments eventually fade in significence to little more than a European "electoral college"?

    And what implications does this have for the wider world when one considers the question: what is the limit of expansion (if any)?
    IMO the first three are foregone conclusions. I'm still a fan of eventual continent alliance and see few expansion limitations.
    These are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. ~Groucho Marx~

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