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Thread: Why BAN the Choice of Therapy as unsafe? But defend the Choice of Abortion as safe?

  1. #1
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    Jun 2014
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    Why BAN the Choice of Therapy as unsafe? But defend the Choice of Abortion as safe?

    As a progressive prochoice Democrat, who has friends with successful
    experience with spiritual healing therapy and coming to peace with orientation issues
    (one gave up bisexual feelings, another came out as transgender after going through healing,
    and other friend who provides counseling told me she helped a former lesbian to heal from abuse)

    How come fellow Democrats can FEAR the abuse of "conversion therapy"
    so MUCH they push to PUNISH and BAN the choice as "not even safe to offer."

    But where Abortion has been Abused to harm, maim and kill people,
    they REFUSE regulations on the CHOICE of abortion, and want this CHOICE to remain FREE?

    Why is it okay to trust women with the choice of abortion,
    but not to trust people with the free choice of therapy?

    If "conversion therapy" can be abused, doesn't abortion carry worse risks?
    If Democrats can understand abortion can be "Safe and by Choice"
    why this FEAR that ALL conversion therapy is Abusive and Wrongful.

    Doesn't this sound like "anti-choice" advocates yelling about Abortion?
    So much they want the choice BANNED and PUNISHED by law?
    MADE ILLEGAL -- NOT even a CHOICE, and stop ALL "safe practitioners"
    from providing this CHOICE as a safe and freely chosen option. NO!!!

    When did Democrats become the party of Anti Choice?

    Can anyone explain the logic in BANNING one choice (out of fear it is dangerous and harmful)
    but defending Choice in Abortion from ANY ATTEMPT TO REGULATE or make sure it is not abusive
    despite the dangers and risks commonly reported?

  2. #2
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    Conversion therapy is not a mainstream psychological treatment; abortion is.

    Homosexuality is not considered a mental disorder, so the APA does not recommend 'curing' it; pregnancy can have deleterious effects on a woman's health, having a child before she's ready has bad effects for mother and child.

    This site suggests that conversion therapy is largely unsuccessful:
    Http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/facult..._changing.html

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imnotreallyhere View Post
    Conversion therapy is not a mainstream psychological treatment; abortion is.

    Homosexuality is not considered a mental disorder, so the APA does not recommend 'curing' it; pregnancy can have deleterious effects on a woman's health, having a child before she's ready has bad effects for mother and child.

    This site suggests that conversion therapy is largely unsuccessful:
    Http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/facult..._changing.html
    Hi INRH thank you for a clear explanation that I can understand.

    The resources I know of with SUCCESS in healing therapy
    not only address those cases, but have success with healing
    * cancer
    * diabetes
    * schizophrenia
    * addictions and abuse
    and many other disorders.

    I understand that traditional methods DO NOT cure schizophrenia and other diseases
    like rheumatoid arthritis where treatment depends on "placating or reducing symptoms" by medication.

    So how can these methods be compared?
    And judge one by the FAILURE of another?

    I have found personal and political "conflicts of interest"
    in why the research into working therapy and solutions isn't being done.
    For one, the therapy is free and NATURAL, and would take the control of dependence on drugs and
    medicine away from politicians and big corporations
    and give more power to the people through "spiritually based" processes that can't be regulated by govt.

    People are afraid of change and want to keep things under their control.

    NOTE: The key factor I have found in successful therapy and healing methods is FORGIVENESS.
    It makes sense that the people helping with the healing and forgiveness
    must be MORE forgiving than the person they are helping or the process FAILS.

    So of course, doctors who don't understand the forgiveness process of healing,
    are NOT going to apply it to their patients, especially NOT on the level of "generational healing"
    that some of the Buddhists and Christian therapists understand. They are pushing for
    medical research studies, but are in the minority.

    For resources on SUCCESSFUL safe effective and NATURAL methods of spiritual healing,
    I have collected the most common references I recommend here:
    http://www.spiritual-healing.us

    The book I most commonly refer and give out for free is
    HEALING by Dr. Francis MacNutt
    http://www.christianhealingmin.org

    He explained in another book "Homosexuality Can it be Healed"
    that the research is not being conducted on the effective methods, because of
    the bias against religious groups that are feared as "coercing" people unnaturally.
    People imposing fraudulent malpractice or "false faith healing" are NOT to be confused with people who teach natural and effective healing.
    Dr. MacNutt acknowledges this is causing problems, and blocking access to REAL and natural therapy that is NOT causing problems.

    In his 1999 edition, he found a medical team to do research to document the healing effects
    of this method on Rheumatoid Arthritis. The same methods can work on any number of conditions
    to facilitate the healing by forgiving and removing whatever unresolved conflicts are causing the blocks in the mind or spirit.

    In Peck's book "Glimpses of the Devil" he observed two Schizophrenic patients
    who otherwise could not have been cured, because they rejected all therapy.
    After the deliverance methods were applied, the patients returned to their natural
    state of mind and could receive the normal medical and mental treatment to recover.

    Peck cited the "false division" between science and religion
    blocking this process from being researched, developed and offered as regular therapy
    for cases to which they apply. Not all cases are like these, but enough people
    can be helped to make it worth researching and trying to help people as it causes NO HARM.
    There is NO coercion and no abuse involved, no judging or rejecting or forcing anything or anyone.
    It all works by praying to receive forgiveness and healing to free up the natural energy and process
    otherwise blocked by unforgiven issues from the past preventing the person from healing.

    The professional groups with enough funding to research and prove
    these methods work are not going to spend millions to put themselves out of business.

    Just like lawyers are not going to promote mediation and conflict resolution
    as saving people's sanity and resources, because they make money off lawsuits.

    Thanks I for a clear answer
    but I don't think it applies to successful
    methods of healing that were left out of the studies.

    If the SAME professional organizations had researched the methods
    that Dr. Peck used and Dr. MacNutt uses, it would be all over the
    news that some team won the Nobel Prize for proving spiritual healing
    with science, to end the conflicts with religion, and save more people's lives.

    Our whole govt, prison system, medical and mental health system would change
    when we prove that mental and criminal illness can be treated or healed with deep forgiveness therapy.

    Some people are not ready for that level of change.
    The more people who start looking into it as real,
    then we might prepare society to change globally.

    Again we have to be more forgiving to be ready.
    Otherwise, people will fight against change left and right,
    and this covers up the research on methods that can save more lives.

    See also http://www.healingisyours.com
    A medical doctor who gave up his neurosurgery practice
    when he discovered how spiritual healing works and he
    could help a lot more people by healing the root causes
    instead of manipulating the symptoms. He didn't believe
    this worked either, until he saw proof, and started applying it
    himself to help people heal by forgiving and letting go of
    deeprooted issues that were blocking their minds and
    bodies from healing natural as they were designed to.

    Agnes Sanford "The Healing Light" is another classic
    that explains how healing is a natural process in life,
    and we have merely to work with it instead of against it.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2006
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    5,128
    First off, this thread is a false delimma.
    The two questions are not related. Reparative therapy and its medical validity is unrelated to abortion and its medical validity.
    Two separate issues.

    For the first, there is no real question...
    The Professional Medical and Psychiatric community has reviewed the evidence and it's rather clear.
    Reparative therapy not only does NOT do what it claims (can't change gay to straight) but it is also often harmful.
    Because of the aggressive promotion of efforts to change sexual orientation through therapy, a number of medical, health and mental health professional organizations have issued public statements about the dangers of this approach. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists and the National Association of Social Workers together, representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured.”
    Just the Facts about Sexual Orientation and Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel
    reparativeInfographic.png
    http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east...nfographic.png
    http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/t...rative-therapy
    https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...n_therapy.html
    Text of APA Resolution on "Reparative Therapy"


    For the second question, What are the actual statistics for abortion?
    The risk to the woman is negligible. It's a safe procedure.


    Finally, the ban on reparative therapy involves the claim of "therapy".
    i.e. the claim of medical validity which is false.

    emilynghiem, you respond with a lot of RELIGIOUS based comments involving forgiveness and spirituality.
    The ban on reparative therapy involves a ban on claiming it's therapy.
    It does not affect religious claims of whatever. A RELIGIOUS based anti-gay camp would not be affected, if they avoid pretending they have any scientific / medical merit.
    "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
    You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
    *** Jamie Raskin

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,669
    Let me relay what happened to a friend of mine who was forced to go through that when she was 15.

    There were 13 people in that session.

    That was 17 years ago.

    Since then.. out of that 13 people , 7 are dead. 5 from overdoses, and 2 suicides.

    That doesn't sound like something to put a child through.
    ‎"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov

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