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Thread: Father, son and daughter debate gay rights.

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    Father, son and daughter debate gay rights.

    This is a debate on Facebook I had with my dad, Christopher Vargas, my sister davina, and me Chris Vargas, please don't get me and my father confused with each other.

    These types of debates are needed in today's society.

    I'm so tired of all the Obama haters. He's human, he makes mistakes but we are approaching a better time since before bush. Doesn't anyone remember how bad bush was? Apparently this person does. People want instant change, instant fixes, but you don't want a bandaid on the problem. What is happening now, will strengthen the country not now but in the future. I don't want an instant fix, because those are superficial! I want the long con, it takes time, but the rewards are substantial. Obama will not see his plan work until he is well out of office. The economy will improve.

    An open letter to the people who hate Obama more than they love America

    I meet you all the time. You hate Obama. You hate gay people. You hate black people, immigrants, Muslims, labor unions, women who want the right to make choices concerning their bodies, you ...
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    Roxanne Orman Luckman likes this.

    Christopher Vargas Really amazing what a Hippocratic this guy is. This letter is full of hate, bigotry, assumptions, accusations, etc... directed at people he does not even know. I guess he thinks all conservative white people are all the same. What a jerk!!!
    February 17 at 5:36pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Hypocritical, you mean? (I REALLY hope you didn't mean "Hippocratic," as in, "Hippocratic Method" or "Oath." Though that would actually be pretty funny)!
    February 17 at 5:44pm · Edited · Like

    Christopher Vargas ya my spell ck went with the wrong word i did not catch it until it was enetered
    February 17 at 5:44pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak I know, I'm just teasing
    February 17 at 5:46pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas oops
    February 17 at 5:49pm · Like


    Davina M. Krchniak I just read the article. Yes, it's a generalization and stereotypical, but unfortunately, a strong majority of Conservatives do think this way. (And here I am thinking of the South).
    February 17 at 6:05pm · Like

    Chris Vargas Here in Nevada too.
    February 17 at 6:38pm · Like

    Chris Vargas Everyday I hear at least 3 anti obama remarks.
    February 17 at 6:39pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas I know a lot of conservatives and i don't know one who hates African Americans or legal immigration. They do not like illegal immigration, Muslim extremists, or abortion. They also do not like the gay agenda.
    February 17 at 6:45pm · Like

    Chris Vargas And I don't like the anti-gay agenda. Like Tennessee, with the return of segregation to the south.
    February 17 at 6:47pm · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas The founding fathers set up a system of government where other branches would keep another branch from getting out of control. If you know how our system works, you would know Obama is not upholding the constitution. It is up to Congress and the senate to pass laws. No President has the authority to re-write or ignore the parts of a law he does not like. If he was a Conservative President I would feel the same way. Would you?
    February 17 at 6:55pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas I do not agree with the anti-gay conservative agenda either,but I do believe in sticking up for our rights when they are being trashed by the left.
    February 17 at 6:57pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas Lying to American peoples about Obama care was not a" mistake". Pushing us towards Socialism nuts. All socialism does is put everybody one the same level.. Poor. It brings people down not up. Only those in power benefit from it. It's a freedom steal-er.
    February 17 at 7:17pm · Like

    Chris Vargas Yes but then again every single politician is corrupt by some measure. Every president lies. But I do not agree with total segregation. Refusing business to homosexuals, just like pre civil rights black segregation. That is wrong. Both sides lie both sides are corrupt. We need to abolish the two party line. We need new leadership. But given the choice again between Romney and Obama I am still voting Obama.
    February 17 at 7:24pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Only those is power benefit from a Capitalism system, too. And what, exactly, is the "gay agenda," other than them demanding equal rights and respect?
    February 17 at 7:30pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak (And if you're going to start ranting about NAMBLA, please educate yourself on the differences between homosexuality and pedophilia, and the age of consent! Marriage between two legal, consenting adults does not apply to children, animals or toasters!)
    February 17 at 7:32pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak And hey - I believe in sticking up for our rights when they are being trashed by the Right!
    February 17 at 7:37pm · Edited · Like

    Christopher Vargas that's good. we all have that right
    February 17 at 7:53pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas I always wondered why NAMBLA has been allowed to march in the San Francisco Gay Rights Parade if they don't condone it.
    February 17 at 7:55pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas And they don't just want equal rights and respect. They are trying to make saying you think homosexuality is wrong, a hate crime.
    February 17 at 7:56pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas Saying "only those in power benefit from a capitalism system too" is silly. Look around you. is everyone you know poor and just getting by? With Capitalism you have a chance to better yourself. So what if people in Socialist countries have food, housing, and, medical care. So do slaves and prisoners.
    February 17 at 8:05pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak As far as NAMBLA marching in the SF pride parade, I don't know about that - and I have been to several. Didn't see it. Yes, witholding rights from homosexuals because of their life choices IS a hate crime. Look into the UN and update yourself with the rest of the world. Yes, so do slaves and prisoners - you just described current America. YES, everyone around me IS poor and barely scraping by. They are drowning in debt, barely able to cover bills and floundering under the stress to keep up. With ANY system you have a chance to better yourself - in Capitalism the folks at the top amass the world's wealth, and you are little more than a serf, a slave, spending your life paying off the debts you incurred. Neither system works.
    February 17 at 9:05pm · Unlike · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak And why on earth would any gay person be interested in supporting pedophiles? That doesn't even make sense. I have, literally, DOZENS of gay friends and I do not know a single one - in their circle of gay friends or mine - who would condone such a thing. Your notion of "homosexual agenda" is pure propoganda. Don't parrot biased, secondhand information that you read online or hear in the news. Get out there and start living among the people before you dare to judge their intentions. Any stance that I take on any subject is purely based off my valid, authentic personal experience, perception and history - NOT secondhand information.
    February 17 at 9:23pm · Edited ·
    The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is a pedophile and pederast...
    See More
    February 17 at 9:20pm · Like · Remove Preview

    Davina M. Krchniak (If you read the factual, UNBIASED link above, around note #17 it discusses how a few radicals allowed NAMBLA to march in the SF Pride parades, but the MAJORITY have since discouraged and abandoned all notions of association with NAMBLA).
    February 17 at 9:21pm · Unlike · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak The GLAAD, NGLTF, ILGA groups and others have made clear, public statements that they do not condone NAMBLA and are not associated. That's 3+ ACTUAL gay advocate groups against one NOT gay pedophilia group - a group that would like to THINK it has ties to the Gay Rights movement. Completely false.
    February 17 at 9:48pm · Edited · Like

    Chris Vargas Don't forget the poor daleks.
    February 17 at 9:43pm · Like · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak I don't mean to sound harsh, but people who rely on external authority (church, political groups, government parties) to teach them an opinion really annoy me. True freedom demands inner - not outer - authority.
    February 17 at 9:50pm · Like

    Chris Vargas Religious ppl forget the bible passage, you don't need a church, lift up a rock you will find god. You don't have to be part of a church to worship. Plus they arnt suppose to hate, but be accepting. It's hypocritical of them. It's just so sad.
    February 17 at 10:45pm · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas Davina. If the comment about "people only relying External authority" is a reference to me, you are wrong. I read and seek out information from all areas I am interested and which helps me in forming an opinion. There actually is a gay rights organization which has actually listed their "Homosexual agenda". It is not me making something up or assuming anything. I am also not saying all homosexuals are all alike. As with every group, there are major differences with-in the homosexual community. There are some homosexuals who promote pedophilia just as there are group of straight people who do. There are conservative republican homosexuals and liberal progressives.
    February 18 at 5:14pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas Davina; in your remark in response to me saying "And they don't just want equal rights and respect. They are trying to make saying you think homosexuality is wrong, a hate crime." What you said "withholding rights from homosexuals because of their life choices IS a hate crime. Look into the UN and update yourself with the rest of the world." I never said in my statement that we should withhold rights from the homosexual community. In fact on a post Chris posted yesterday about" Tennessee legislating direct discrimination against homosexuals" my response was "Not constitutional. Won't stick. Can't discriminate against American citizens no matter how much you may disagree with how they 'live their personal lives". So I say again. they don't just want equal rights and respect. They are trying to make saying you think homosexuality is wrong, a hate crime. Do you think anyone who verbally or in the written word, expresses their own opinion which is they think Homosexuality is wrong, or a sin, and or an abomination, etc... be charged with a hate crime?
    February 18 at 5:29pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak No, you can EXPRESS your lack of support; you can't be a Fascist and try to pass laws denying them basic rights. (Such as the TN example that Chris posted). Hell, I think religion is wrong and should be banned, and I do not expect to be ostracized for saying so! I get what you're saying. There's a big difference between stating an opinion and actually making movements to put roadblocks in people's lives. And yes, in your first response above you mentioned that you are not making a generalization, and that there are good and bad in every group - Correct! However, saying that there is an overall "gay agenda" to make pedophilia legal IS a generalization.
    February 18 at 6:11pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak PS - I'm pretty sure it was just the Westbourough Baptist Church that they wanted to call a Hate Group - (because it IS). Just as you "dislike" Muslim/Islam extremists, WE dislike christian extremists.
    February 18 at 6:21pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas To clear something up I don't think the majority of homosexuals want to legalize pedophilia.
    February 18 at 7:46pm · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas I do not have a problem with equal rights i have a problem with special rights. One example would be here in Washington. They past a bill that protects transgender people from "discrimination". It may sound great of the surface, but one incident has created an injustice and put the rights of a transgender male to female person over other peoples rights. The situation is there is an Olympic sized swimming pool at a branch of a Washington collage. Local elementary, Jr high, and High school girls use the pool for practice. What happened was these young girls were undressed and some showering when a transgender fully equipped male who identifies as a female, came in and got totally undressed in front of the girls. So you have underage girls and an adult male nude in the locker room. Parents were notified and went down to the locker-room to see what the guy was doing there. He left but because of his complaints and the law he is allowed to go into the locker-room to dress and undress. Do you think that is what they had in mind when they passed the law? Do you think his rights overrule the rights of all of those girls ? As far as I am concerned, this is nuts. The patients our running the insane asylum.
    February 18 at 8:01pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas A second example is some states have passed laws which make it illegal for anyone under 18 to get counseling if they have homosexual feelings. I do believe some people are born homosexual. I also believe some people choose to practice homosexuality. The problem with this law is there have been incidences where boys are repeated molested by an adult male and end up identifying with and acting out sexually with other males. Although they were heterosexual, they had sexual confusion because of the abuse. with counseling have been able to go back to being they way they were born. Now is it fair to tell these young men they can not get help? What if some of these kids kill themselves over it? Is it too bad for them? How is this justified?
    February 18 at 8:12pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak No, those laws are to discourage counseling to "treat" homosexuality. No one can be denied counseling for sexual abuse. And the majority of gays are NOT molestation cases! As far as locker rooms and whatnot, I think, as a race, we really need to get over our fear of sexuality and bodies. The whole set up is a failure. Were you born straight, or did you choose to be straight? Think carefully, and with empathy.
    Yesterday at 1:21pm · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak (And there are more suicides done by gay boys who want to come OUT and can't because of social abuse and pressure. What about THEM? What if they kill themselves over it? Is it too bad for them? How is this justified?)
    Yesterday at 1:26pm · Edited · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Ultimately it doesn't really matter. The movement has taken over; there's a massive revival of truth. Your generation is withering away and dying off and ours is ushering in the new era, devoid of discrimination, sexism and hate crimes as the norm. We've already won; in a few generations no one will have to be so afraid to come out of the closet that they kill themselves.
    Yesterday at 1:29pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas So you really do not have a problem with him being in the locker room with them?
    Yesterday at 10:32pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas This movement is nothing new. It has happened in societies for thousands of years. From a historical viewpoint ( not a religious one), when countries have done this in the past, the country fell apart. Research it your self. The breakup of the traditional family unit and acceptance of homosexuality has lead repeatedly to a countries destruction.
    Yesterday at 10:38pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas It is OK if a minor who is homosexual or has homosexual feelings not to have counseling. Why shouldn't they be allowed to if they choose to? Why take that right away? If they ( not their parents) choose to. I thought liberals were all about choice.
    Yesterday at 10:44pm · Like

    Christopher Vargas As far as your utopia statement of holding hands and singing" Ding Dong the witch (Religion) is dead" I think you will be unpleasantly surprised at what actually happens.
    Yesterday at 10:53pm · Like

    Chris Vargas Mandatory counceling shouldn't be there. It should be their choice. What the law was saying was mandatory counceling, by parents and other authority ppl.
    23 hours ago · Like

    Deborah L Reid · Friends with Jess Latner and 12 others
    Somebody needs to provide popcorn for some topics *sets out a bowl*
    17 hours ago · Like · 1

    Chris Vargas Oh hello spectating troll.
    13 hours ago · Like

    Chris Vargas Lol
    13 hours ago · Like

    Deborah L Reid · Friends with Jess Latner and 12 others
    Anytime
    12 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak No, I have no problem being naked around strangers - I frequent nude beaches, remember? Doesn't bother me, and I'd like to see more open attitudes towards sexuality. Maybe they can put dividers up for those who are uncomfortable with the idea with a pre-op using the same facilities. Actually, in women's' locker rooms there usually ARE separate shower stalls! I've never seen a women's locker room that wasn't! Yes, I've researched falls of empires and nations - there are SO many reasons ASIDE from any acceptance or lack of acceptance of homosexuality. (And here I am thinking of the Spartans' refusal to evolve socially). I think it's interesting that only religious historical sources cite homosexuality as the reason for falls of nations, even while they add an unbiased disclaimer to their statement. A nation or empire doesn't fall for one simple reason, or one domino cause and effect; there's a whole picture there. You can't make a blanket statement; otherwise it's just as easy to say that religion can be the cause for every empires' demise! Or birth rate could be the cause. Or war. And YES - anyone should be allowed to CHOOSE counseling for any reason - that law is saying that you cannot FORCE a child to "pray out the gay." You can't FORCE a child to seek THERAPY to "get healed" or "get over" homosexuality. PS - I'm not a "Liberal"
    11 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 1

    Chris Vargas That's exactly what I mean.
    12 hours ago · Like · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak And the liquidation of religion on this planet will be at the very least good for eradicating misinformation and WARS. Religion is at the heart of nearly every war and act of genocide that has ever been fought. It will be lovely to see humans wake the hell up and stop killing each other over their imaginary friends.
    12 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Here's an unbiased account on the fall of the Roman Empire, and it pretty much states that WE DON'T KNOW why it fell. "we have been obsessed with the fall: it has been valued as an archetype for every perceived decline, and, hence, as a symbol for our own fears."

    Decline of the Roman Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    en.wikipedia.org
    The theme of the decline of the Roman Empire was introduced by one of the most i...
    See More
    12 hours ago · Edited · Like · Remove Preview

    Deborah L Reid · Friends with Jess Latner and 12 others
    *munching popcorn* .... or just make it literally "one nation under god"..... lol
    12 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak In fact, everything I'm reading is saying that these are just theories, and they list war, disease, crop failures and a myriad of other causes as likely causes for various nation's falls. I think you are a hater, Dad, I think you are threatened by homosexuals, and I think you listen to too much Republican radio. It's Fascist ideals like yours that landed gays in camps in Nazi Germany. The world is never going to be the plastic Jesus-dominated culture you wish it was. In addition, you really need to come to terms with the idea that yes, your children ARE educated, yes, your children have different views, and yes, we are adults.
    12 hours ago · Unlike · 1

    Deborah L Reid · Friends with Jess Latner and 12 others
    Oh my. Radio talk shows slowly rot the brain over long term exposure. And they make you REALLY annoying. My condolences
    12 hours ago · Unlike · 2

    Davina M. Krchniak PS - You said, " The breakup of the traditional family unit has lead repeatedly to a countries destruction." Okay. So what about DIVORCE? What about THAT breakup of the traditional family unit? Don't you think that you and mom splitting your traditional family unit apart had MORE of an effect on society than whether or not my gay neighbors are XXXXing? Why don't you practice what you preach and remove the plank of wood or whatever from your own eye before you point out the speck in someone else's'?
    11 hours ago · Unlike · 1

    Chris Vargas How many kids were okay with moms and dads who grew apart, hated each other and stayed together because they had to keep their family unit together, boys grew up expectant of being better then women. As they saw their fathers actions towards their mothers. Girls felt complacent towards men as the weaker sex. Because they saw their mothers lower themselves and do their husbands bidding. Now a woman with a husband who tried to dominate her, divorces him and keeps the kids. The boy sees how not to treat a woman, and how strong women are. The girl see how strong her mom is and how she doesn't need to be treated that way at all. The boy and girl from the divorced family grow up better than the kept together family for appearances. So yes divorce is a good thing. When two ppl just do t work out together.
    11 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Oh, believe me, I'm NOT arguing that divorce is NOT the better option for the children!! I am saying, that if Dad is saying that homosexuality is undermining the traditional family unit, then how does his OWN divorce (which ACTUALLY divided a traditional family unit) and the divorces of everyone else, NOT have a MORE profound effect on society than two men or two women XXXXing? Don't you think that an ACTUAL division of a family unit (via divorce) has more of an effect on traditional society than two dudes blowing each other?
    11 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak (I'm saying he is guilty of the same thing he is trying to accuse gay people of: breaking apart the traditional family unit, which will lead to the inevitable breakdown of society). Look at it this way: His parents divorced. Their kids all got divorces. Then THEIR kids all got divorces. THAT'S a breakdown of society. More love in this world is not a breakdown of society. Would-be aborted children being adopted by loving gay parents isn't a breakdown of society - these are build-ups!!
    11 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Deborah L Reid · Friends with Jess Latner and 12 others
    As the victim of an abusive husband and of an abusive mother who believes and tries my best to follow bible principles.... bye bye.
    10 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Yes, let's try and base our society off princeples of a middle-eastern society that's 5,000 to 2,000 years old. Completely relevant to today. We should just stay in the Bronze Age. So I'm guessing you're living by the principles that women are supposed to follow as well? If so, why are you even speaking? (I'm just joshing you, by the way)
    10 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 1

    Chris Vargas Lol
    10 hours ago · Like

    Chris Vargas The breakdown, as stated is due, n my belief to the generations of men, who were taught and are still taught that women are a weaker sex. And when they treat their spouses as such, and their wives won't tolerate it, instead of men changing, they stay with the same supiroriotity complex, as they teach their sons and their sons teach their sons, it becomes a pattern that doesn't change and that leads to the breakdown of the family unit. With a changing world, ppl who arnt willing to make a change are doomed to be left behind as the enlightened few move forward into the new future.
    10 hours ago · Like · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak Yup. Exactly. The breakdown of a society is in it's refusal to evolve. (Which brings me back to the Spartan nation).
    10 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas No. It was taking away the choice to get counseling if they wanted it.
    7 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak No one took away the choice; they took away the FORCE.
    7 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Well, here we go. Some answers to some of you questions and accusations.
    5 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas You stated " I think you are a hater, Dad, I think you are threatened by homosexuals, and I think you listen to too much Republican radio. It's Fascist ideals like yours that landed gays in camps in Nazi Germany." 1. I would literally lay down my life to protect anyone who's life is threatened for being gay.
    4 hours ago · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas 2. I am positive some people are born gay, some people choose to practice homosexuality, and some people act out because of sexual abuse.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Good. I'm glad you would do that, even though you and yours have a strange obsession with moderating other people's consensual sexuality.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas 3. God does not love homosexuals less than anyone else. I am the greatest of sinners and know I have contributed to the decline of our nation.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas 4. To clarify when I said "The breakup of the traditional family unit and acceptance of homosexuality has lead repeatedly to a countries destruction." These are just symptoms, not literally "THE" reason.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas 5. Any business which refuses to serve a person because that customer is homosexual is UN-American. They either need to serve everyone or no one.
    4 hours ago · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas I believe the Christian church has treated the homosexual community unfairly. It is the only "sin" where to person is expected to change before salvation. All other people are asked to come as they are.
    4 hours ago · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas I believe if the majority of society says marriage should only between one man and one woman, than it's too bad for those who want to expand the definition of marriage. However, even though I do not agree with gay marriage, if the majority of society accepts gay marriage (like here in Washington) than it is too bad for those apposed to it. If it changes it needs to be done by the acceptance of the people, not through legislation or the judiciary process.
    4 hours ago · Like · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak Good, good and good! That's just not how it sounded, and not how the majority of the groups that you follow think.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas I believe moral change can not be forced on the individual but that person has to change willingly or not at all.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas I believe we are to approach all people with love. You can disagree with someone or with something they do and still love them.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas I believe moral change can not be forced on the society but that society has to change willingly or not at all.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Yup.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas I believe practicing homosexuals can find salvation through Christ, but, I also believe He (not us) will change them in His way and time. I have Christian friends who came out of the gay lifestyle and are actually joyful. For them they are happy with the decisions THEY made.
    4 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Eh. You know that I do not believe in any of that. (And I have gay friends who came out of the Christian lifestyle and are very joyful)! You've got to be true to yourself; inauthenticity is a recipe for unhappiness.
    3 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas That's right. It goes both ways. In the end were are responsible for our own decisions.
    3 hours ago · Like · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak Did you get the book I mailed you?
    3 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Yes got it yesterday. Thanks. Will read it when I am in my ' office'. (Have to go to the office three of four times a day).
    3 hours ago · Like · 1

    Davina M. Krchniak Good! I figure if I had to read *your* bible for so many years, now you have to read *mine.*
    3 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas The next one may be little confusing and hard to describe but I will try. I believe there was no marriage discrimination when marriage was between one man and one woman. The reason why is at that time every individual American had the exact same marria...See More
    3 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Now here is where gay marriage comes in. It did not exist when they were claiming discrimination. It is something that had to be created and since it had been created yet it is impossible for discrimination have occurred. They did are going about it th...See More
    3 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak That doesn't even make sense. Where do hermaphrodites fit in this picture? For two, any consenting adult who is of legal age should be able to marry who they LOVE. We've already redefined marriage in the last few hundred years - women are no longer th...See More
    3 hours ago · Like

    .
    3 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Doug? Any thoughts? This is SO your area.
    3 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Not finished yet. Wait until I finish before deciding if it does not make sense.
    3 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas This is the important part: So Changing the definition was the key. Now that the definition of marriage has been changed here in Washington. To deny homosexuals marriage rights would be marriage discrimination because now same sex marriage DOES exist.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Even denying them marriage rights when they were first picketing for them with was discrimination. When a slave was vying for freedom, was it not discrimination because there was no such thing at that time as a free slave?
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas "For two, any consenting adult who is of legal age should be able to marry who they LOVE" Does this include two connecting adult brothers who genuinely love each other intimately? Does society have the right to deny them the right to marry? They just happen to fall in love.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak When women wanted the right to vote, and to actually be treated like citizens, was that discrimination because the notion of women voting didn't exist yet?
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Incest is banned for more than just procreative reasons. So no.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Why?
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak (That's on par with an infertile couple who happen to be siblings. They can't produce a child - but it's still not "correct)."
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Who are we to tell them their love is not right?
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Biological Westermarck effect?
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas What is Biological Westermarck effect?
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Biological aversion to view one's family members in a sexual light.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Well the majority of men would have a Biological aversion to view another male in a sexual light too.Men are biologically attracted to women. Then he is considered a homo-phobe.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Actually, if they cannot produce offspring and they are actually into it, I don't see why not. Maybe that law will change, especially if it's baseless. But incest and homosexuality are two different things.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak SOME men are biologically attracted to women. MOST men are. Not ALL.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas I said the majority which does mean not all.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak You didn't add it as a preface to your second sentence; you just said "Men are biologically attracted to women."
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Picky picky
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Sorry; I'm big into proper grammar and spelling.
    2 hours ago · Edited · Like

    Christopher Vargas You say " incest and homosexuality are two different things" But your argument and what i have heard from the pro gay marriage groups are "any consenting adult who is of legal age should be able to marry who they LOVE." If that is the criteria for being able to marry then you either have to change that statement, accept non child barring incest, or discriminate against them.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak I actually retracted that statement, 4 posts ago. If offspring mutation is the only reason we do not allow incest, then two legal, consenting adults who cannot reproduce should be allowed to do as they wish. Any other reason is pretty much grounded in tradition, or simply that it makes people uncomfortable.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak (That goes for two homosexual male relatives, and two infertile male and female relatives).
    2 hours ago · Like

    Chris Vargas This is the second civil rights era. Tennessee wants to segregate homosexuals with laws going back to black and white areas of society. "We reserve the right to refuse service to homosexuals" that is wrong, if one form of segregation is allowed, more will follow. It's a step back by 50 years of progress.
    2 hours ago · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas Hello chris
    2 hours ago · Like


    2 hours ago · Like · Remove Preview

    Davina M. Krchniak *pukes*
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Need to read the article before commenting.
    2 hours ago · Like

    Chris Vargas If this passes more laws againced more ppl will be allowed!
    2 hours ago · Like

    Chris Vargas The GOP is using religion as an excuse, there is no excuse for segrigation. That is not loving you neighbor like yourself. Or do not judge others.
    2 hours ago · Like · 1

    Christopher Vargas Tried reading article but computer warned me about mal ware. What does it say?
    2 hours ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas All rights need to be protected. If you have a public business than you have to serve all people. That nice straight couple you just rented the motel room too might just happen to be a brother and sister satan worshiping occult leaders who just finish...See More
    2 hours ago · Like · 1

    Chris Vargas This bible verse from the bible has changed. So why are other bible verse still construed as fact, while others are considered outdated?
    Marriage Violations
    ...See More
    2 hours ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak You gotta love the double-standard.
    about an hour ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Old vs New Testament. Jesus made a new covenant. Lots of things in the old testament were changed when Christ died. There is usually a connection between passages in the Old and new Testament if they are still relevant.
    about an hour ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak So where's the connection in the New Testament that makes anti-gay legislation relevant? lol
    about an hour ago · Like

    Christopher Vargas Gotta go to bed. Work tomorrow. Want to touch bases later on why an atheist can truthfully and willingly site the pledge of allegiance with the statement "Under God".
    about an hour ago · Like

    Davina M. Krchniak Yes, please do; you never answered that one
    about an hour ago · Like

    Chris Vargas David's love for John, is stronger than his love for a woman? Isn't that love between men, in the bible? Homosexual love?

    David’s Lament for Saul and Jonathan
    From Samuel 1
    17And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and Jonathan his son, 18and he said ita should be taught to the people of Judah; behold, it is written in the Book of Jashar.b He said:

    19“Your glory, O Israel, is slain on your high places!
    How the mighty have fallen!
    20Tell it not in Gath,
    publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon,
    lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice,
    lest the daughters of the uncircumcised exult.

    21“You mountains of Gilboa,
    let there be no dew or rain upon you,
    nor fields of offerings!c
    For there the shield of the mighty was defiled,
    the shield of Saul, not anointed with oil.

    22“From the blood of the slain,
    from the fat of the mighty,
    the bow of Jonathan turned not back,
    and the sword of Saul returned not empty.

    23“Saul and Jonathan, beloved and lovely!
    In life and in death they were not divided;
    they were swifter than eagles;
    they were stronger than lions.

    24“You daughters of Israel, weep over Saul,
    who clothed you luxuriously in scarlet,
    who put ornaments of gold on your apparel.

    25“How the mighty have fallen
    in the midst of the battle!

    “Jonathan lies slain on your high places.
    26 I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan;
    very pleasant have you been to me;
    your love to me was extraordinary,
    surpassing the love of women.

    27“How the mighty have fallen,
    and the weapons of war perished!”

    Previously in 1 Samuel it was written about johns love for David as he stripped in front of David and gave him his clothes.
    As well as kissing and weeping together, their bonding of should, etc

    1As soon as he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2And Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father’s house. 3Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. 4And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt. 5And David went out and was successful wherever Saul sent him, so that Saul set him over the men of war. And this was good in the sight of all the people and also in the sight of Saul’s servants.

    1 Samuel 18:3

    Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul.

    1 Samuel 20:41

    And as soon as the boy had gone, David rose from beside the stone heap and fell on his face to the ground and bowed three times. And they kissed one another and wept with one another, David weeping the most.

    1 Samuel 20:30

    Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said to him, “You son of a perverse, rebellious woman, do I not know that you have chosen the son of Jesse to your own shame, and to the shame of your mother's nakedness?

    1 Samuel 18:1

    As soon as he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul.

    1 Samuel 20:41
    about an hour ago · Edited · Like

    Chris Vargas And finally about people judging others and condemning them.

    1 Corinthians 6:1-20 ESV / 1 helpful vote

    When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers,
    about an hour ago · Like

    Chris Vargas What many ppl don't realize about one nation under god, was that it was added to the pledge in the 50's it wasn't part of the original pledge. Though I belive that it should be there but people should have the choice to place any deity in the pledge, one nation un Gaia.
    about an hour ago · Like

    Chris Vargas When Jacob wrestled with the angel in the Bible, they embodied the struggle between sexuality and spirituality. Artists have created many homoerotic images of the scene over the centuries.

    The story of Jacob wrestling (Genesis 32:24-31) is the Sunday lectionary reading for tomorrow (July 31). It speaks to LGBT people and our allies.

    Many have interpreted this story as a struggle between material and spiritual needs, but it is especially powerful for XXXXX people who are trying to reconcile their sexuality and their faith. Jacob refused to give up the fight until he forced a blessing out of God. Like Jacob, LGBT people can also win God’s blessing by continuing to wrestle with our faith, regardless of those who condemn as sinners.

    Jacob, ancestor and namesake of the Israelites, is alone one night when a mysterious stranger comes to him. Scripture refers to the stranger as a man, God, and an angel (Hosea 12:4). He wrestles with Jacob until dawn. Then the angel wants to leave, but Jacob insists, “I will not let you go, unless you bless me.”

    The angel gives him a new name and identity as Israel, which can be translated as “one who has prevailed with God.” Jacob asks to know the angel’s name, but he just gives a blessing and leaves. Alone again, Jacob marvels, “I have seen God face to face and lived.”

    Jacob is honored in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. For Christians, some see the pre-incarnate Christ himself as the mysterious stranger who wrestled with Jacob.

    The story raises intriguing questions. What was the nature of the “wrestling” that went on all night long? Whether or not there was an erotic interaction, the friendly conclusion affirms that God wants to relate to human beings as equals. God rewards those who challenge God.

    “Jacob Wrestling with the Angel” by Leon Bonnat (1876) via Wikimedia Commons

    about an hour ago · Edited · Like

    Chris Vargas “Jacob and the Angel” by Hendrik Andersen, lover of Henry James. For the uncropped version (warning: full frontal nudity), visit Wikimedia Commons.

    about an hour ago · Edited · Like

    Chris Vargas Great quote, god rewards those who challenge god.

  2. #2
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    Any chance of getting a shorter version?

  3. #3
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    I am sure that you are a very interesting person but you are NOT that interesting.

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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accipiter View Post
    I am sure that you are a very interesting person but you are NOT that interesting.
    Really and to whom are you refferring? What does interesting have to do with this?

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    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
    Any chance of getting a shorter version?
    Sadly no. In order to understand the complete back and forth between a family who debates gay rights and the ups and downs as the father condemns his children for advocating gay rights. Well it has to be long.

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