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Thread: Slave Patrols and the Second Amendment

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    Slave Patrols and the Second Amendment

    The Second Amendment reads:
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    Please note that the amendment refers to "a free state", not to a "free nation", which language references the amendment to the maintenance of order within a state rather than our nation as it was when the amendment was written.

    The amendment was to enable slave patrols to keep the slaves of the South from rising up against their illicit masters:
    For those who accept the NRA fiction that the Second Amendment is a God-given right that cannot be infringed or abridged, interpreted or altered, here's a little history that should disrupt that ill considered belief.

    It tells us the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution, not to uphold the citizen's right to own and keep his guns but to uphold his right to own and keep his slaves.

    You can read about it at length in a richly detailed and heavily footnoted 1995 University of California Law Review article, "The Hidden History of the Second Amendment" by Carl T. Bogus, a professor of law at Roger Williams University. He is also the author of a "a generally admiring biography" of the conservative icon William F. Buckley that has won critical praise from both The New York Times and Buckley's own National Review.

    His law review study, sent to me by a reader, maintains that a well regulated militia may or may not have been considered necessary to the security of all the new states but for the slave-owning states, it was a matter of life and death.
    The Day - The Second Amendment's connection to slavery | News from southeastern Connecticut
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    Guns have long been the tools of racism in America. America was founded by rich white men that wanted to have guns to control their slaves and blacks are still getting victimized by the guns, violence and racism in America.
    A Brief History of The United States of America - YouTube

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    This matter has been discussed to the point of ad nauseum in previous threads in the past years. And as has been pointed out each time there is no historical evidence to prove or even support the notion of the second amendment being designed with the explicit purpose of being used as a tool to quell potential slave uprisings. It is an exercise in academic dishonesty to continue repeating the same claims over and over when they have already been disproven in the past.

    There is no evidence to support that the second amendment was designed or intended to be racist. However there is ample evidence to show that firearm control laws were created and exercised with racist intentions. One must wonder why they receive continued support considering they were supported by the Klu Klux Klan.

    One must also wonder why the black community continues to support the same laws that were used to punish their ancestors and render them helpless to protect themselves against true racists who would hang them from trees or set them on fire.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenamnes View Post
    This matter has been discussed to the point of ad nauseum in previous threads in the past years. And as has been pointed out each time there is no historical evidence to prove or even support the notion of the second amendment being designed with the explicit purpose of being used as a tool to quell potential slave uprisings. It is an exercise in academic dishonesty to continue repeating the same claims over and over when they have already been disproven in the past.

    There is no evidence to support that the second amendment was designed or intended to be racist. However there is ample evidence to show that firearm control laws were created and exercised with racist intentions. One must wonder why they receive continued support considering they were supported by the Klu Klux Klan.

    One must also wonder why the black community continues to support the same laws that were used to punish their ancestors and render them helpless to protect themselves against true racists who would hang them from trees or set them on fire.
    I would ask how you came to the conclusion the black community supports gun rights?
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    I would ask how you came to the conclusion the black community supports gun rights?
    You misunderstand. What is being said is that black communities support firearm control laws. What is being questioned is why this is so when historically such laws have been used to oppress their ancestors.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenamnes View Post
    You misunderstand. What is being said is that black communities support firearm control laws. What is being questioned is why this is so when historically such laws have been used to oppress their ancestors.
    Im not sure you understand...

    You stated that the black population continues to support the laws of the RKBA... Which purportedly was used to keep them in chains.

    One must also wonder why the black community continues to support the same laws that were used to punish their ancestors
    This would entail the black community opposing gun reform, i am curious as to what study has shown you this data? For along with the more than 85% support for the democratic party it has been shown that the black community, just behind women is one of the strongest proponents of enforcing new gun control laws and gun reform.
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    Im not sure you understand...

    You stated that the black population continues to support the laws of the RKBA... Which purportedly was used to keep them in chains.
    The full quote is as follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenamnes View Post
    One must also wonder why the black community continues to support the same laws that were used to punish their ancestors and render them helpless to protect themselves against true racists who would hang them from trees or set them on fire.
    What is being asked is why the black community supports laws that were relied upon by the Klu Klux Klan to ensure they could not be fired upon by those they targeted for harassment and terror. The members of the klan supported laws that were designed to prohibit firearms ownership by blacks. So why are blacks of today supporting the same laws that left them vulnerable to attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    This would entail the black community opposing gun reform, i am curious as to what study has shown you this data? For along with the more than 85% support for the democratic party it has been shown that the black community, just behind women is one of the strongest proponents of enforcing new gun control laws and gun reform.
    It is your own misunderstanding of the wording of the post.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenamnes View Post
    The full quote is as follows:



    What is being asked is why the black community supports laws that were relied upon by the Klu Klux Klan to ensure they could not be fired upon by those they targeted for harassment and terror. The members of the klan supported laws that were designed to prohibit firearms ownership by blacks. So why are blacks of today supporting the same laws that left them vulnerable to attack?



    It is your own misunderstanding of the wording of the post.


    Xenamnes... Lets go through this....

    Which laws are you referring to? I presume the RKBA? and the 2nd amendment in general....



    The point is you claim the black community support gun rights..... this is what you said.... When that is contrary to every piece of demographic data, and after the last election their is plenty to choose from... S i ask you, how have you come to the conclusion that the black community supports gun rights and the 2nd amendment?


    The rest of the quote had no bearing on the context of what you proposed in this regard...
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    Xenamnes... Lets go through this....

    Which laws are you referring to? I presume the RKBA? and the 2nd amendment in general....
    Laws that were drafted to specify that black individuals could not possess firearms for whatever reason, be it the need to acquire permission from an official figure, stipulating costs that could not be met or general prohibition. Such Jim Crow laws were common in the southern states after the civil war and were among the reasons for ratification of the fourteenth amendment.

    The point is you claim the black community support gun rights..... this is what you said....
    You are incorrect. You will continue to remain incorrect until you realize that you are misinterpreting the original statement and cease such activities.

    When that is contrary to every piece of demographic data, and after the last election their is plenty to choose from... S i ask you, how have you come to the conclusion that the black community supports gun rights and the 2nd amendment?
    Reread the thread from the beginning. Nowhere in any of the posts made was it ever suggested the black community supports firearm freedoms. You cannot generate statements from others that simply do not exist in any form.

    The rest of the quote had no bearing on the context of what you proposed in this regard...
    Again you are incorrect. You are attempting to misinterpret a partial quote and make it say is does not and was never intended to say or suggest.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Some interesting thoughts have been shared in this thread. I don't think it can be denied that gun ownership was seen as a valuable tool in keeping the slave population under control during the time period that the Second Amendment was written. For example, George Mason's first draft of Virginia's Declaration of Rights caused quite a bit of controversy because people feared it would inspire slaves to rebel. Virginians didn't want slaves to believe that they had rights. Edmund Randolph was able to quiet these fears by pointing out, "with arms in our hands, asserting the general rights of man, we ought not to be too nice and too much restricted in the declaration of them." In other words, white people with guns didn't have anything to fear from their slaves. They could adequately keep their slaves under submission if they were armed.
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Court’s overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Galileo, thank you for this nice bit of history.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Some interesting thoughts have been shared in this thread. I don't think it can be denied that gun ownership was seen as a valuable tool in keeping the slave population under control during the time period that the Second Amendment was written. For example, George Mason's first draft of Virginia's Declaration of Rights caused quite a bit of controversy because people feared it would inspire slaves to rebel. Virginians didn't want slaves to believe that they had rights. Edmund Randolph was able to quiet these fears by pointing out, "with arms in our hands, asserting the general rights of man, we ought not to be too nice and too much restricted in the declaration of them." In other words, white people with guns didn't have anything to fear from their slaves. They could adequately keep their slaves under submission if they were armed.
    None of which amounts to actual evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the second amendment was drafted with the explicit purpose of quelling potential slave rebellions.

    Even if there was some truth to the accusation it would amount to quite little. At the time the second amendment was drafted single shot muzzle loading firearms were the norm. While any rich caucasian individual of british descent would be able to kill one rebellious slave they were be incapable of dealing with five to thirty individuals who could swarm immediately afterward and murder the one who held ownership over them.

    The only realistic manner of quelling a slave rebellion under these circumstances would be for the slave owner to fire an equal number of caucasian workers for the explicit purpose of being on hand should worse come to worse. They would more or less be paid to stand around and wait for something to happen and not be tasked with contributing anything else for their wages.

    Even if someone could afford five hundred black slaves they could not afford five hundred caucasian enforces to ensure an uprising could not happen. The mathematics and economic factors are simply not there to lend credibility to the accusations.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Xenamnes, you are already prejudiced against such a claim so you cannot comment upon it in an unbiased way.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    Xenamnes, you are already prejudiced against such a claim so you cannot comment upon it in an unbiased way.
    It is a matter of simple physics and nothing more. One man armed with a single shot has no realistic hope or chance of preventing a whole assortment of slaves from rebelling and killing him for their treatment. It is a scientific impossibility. It is no more possible than trying to stop a tsunami with sandbags.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Some interesting thoughts have been shared in this thread. I don't think it can be denied that gun ownership was seen as a valuable tool in keeping the slave population under control during the time period that the Second Amendment was written. For example, George Mason's first draft of Virginia's Declaration of Rights caused quite a bit of controversy because people feared it would inspire slaves to rebel. Virginians didn't want slaves to believe that they had rights. Edmund Randolph was able to quiet these fears by pointing out, "with arms in our hands, asserting the general rights of man, we ought not to be too nice and too much restricted in the declaration of them." In other words, white people with guns didn't have anything to fear from their slaves. They could adequately keep their slaves under submission if they were armed.
    I'm sure it came up but it was an afterthought of the 2nd amendment. There is no evidence to support that containing slavery was a major or even minor reason for needing a 2nd amendment. The major reason for a 2nd amendment was to ensure people had guns to insure freedom. This was to be done in 2 ways: 1) form a militia to defend the country as the founders thought standing armies in peace time was bullsh*t and 2) to take out your government if they refuse to honor your rights. That's the reality. If you don't like those reasons you can argue against it but you certainly can't argue the intentions.

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