Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Please respond to the theological conundrum this point makes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Posts
    239

    Please respond to the theological conundrum this point makes

    Video is from a series of lectures entitled
    Beyond Belief: Science, Religion, Reason and Survival


    Speaker Ramachandra, lecture time in video between 38.30 and 56.30 so is relatively short but the point i wanted comment on is

    44.50 the result of split brain patients....


    Link: Beyond Belief: Science, Religion, Reason and Survival - Session 4 - YouTube
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    679
    The lecture basically deals with split brain patients. I wasn't aware of the effects of a corpus callosotomy, but I did know it was used to treat severe epilepsy patients. The result is two halves of the brain that cannot communicate with each other since the small neural passage way between them, called the corpus callosum, has been severed. This makes it possible to analyze half of the brain at a time through several psychological techniques that isolate the sensory systems within only one particular half of the brain. In doing so, you find that the different cognitive halves of the brain, which in a normal person act in tandem to represent a single overall personality, in this case, act as two different "people" with conflicting opinions. I think Hdreams is getting at the fact that many times one half believes in God while the other half does not. This really throws a wrench in just about any religious dogma out there which ascribes going to heaven as a personal choice. In this case, it gets complicated.

    I think there are probably a number of psychological disorders that have the same effect. Many clinically ill people commit absolutely heinous crimes because they lack the ability to control themselves or they lack the ability to determine right from wrong. A very conservative religious person would simply attribute this behavior as the work of the devil or personal choices and send them to hell. I would suspect that this would be much the same for the split brain patients: You ignore the science behind the behavior and focus entirely on observed behavior, whether it checks off as sin, and then condemnation accordingly.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Posts
    239
    I am mainly curious as to a theological response or answer to the conundrum of an Atheist and a Christian existing within one body and how this affects as stated in the video their eligibility to access heaven/Hell/Purgatory. Either the Atheist gets a free pass to heaven or the Christian is sentenced to hell.

    The evidence also points strongly towards a religious center in the brain, or at least an area that controls certain actions that as a side effect encourages Mysticism. I know this has been alluded to in the past but as yet is not well evidenced.
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,117
    Presumably it would not be beyond the power of an all-powerful being to grant entrance to heaven to only the religious side of the person. This would throw a spanner in the works of the soul department. Would it mean that this person (effectively being 2 people) has 2 souls? How did this second soul emerge? Or would only half a soul get to heaven?

    Also, would it be possible for half the brain to be christian and the other half muslim or some other religion, or is the portion of the brain that inclines some to be religious confined to one side? If one side were religious and the other not, which be the more ethical side? Are the portions of the brain that deal with religion and ethics on the same side or opposite sides of the brain?

    For the answers to these questions and more, tune in for next week's exciting episode of . . . .
    Religion is the placebo of the masses - House.
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people - House.
    God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance - Neil deGrasse Tyson.
    That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,657
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    I am mainly curious as to a theological response or answer to the conundrum of an Atheist and a Christian existing within one body and how this affects as stated in the video their eligibility to access heaven/Hell/Purgatory. Either the Atheist gets a free pass to heaven or the Christian is sentenced to hell.
    You're either one or the other. You can't possibly be both.

    Atheists will go to Hell and Christians will go to heaven.
    “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” - Robert Jastrow

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,657
    Quote Originally Posted by smiley View Post
    Religion is the placebo of the masses - House.
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people - House.
    God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance - Neil deGrasse Tyson.
    That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens.
    They're (you're) full of cr*p.

    The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
    “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” - Robert Jastrow

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Valencia. Spain.
    Posts
    2,191
    Hijacking yet another thread then EZ?
    How to make yourself look a fool in one sentence....

    (P.S. worshiping only has 1 p not 2.)
    --johnson--.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by Easyrider View Post
    You're either one or the other. You can't possibly be both.

    Atheists will go to Hell and Christians will go to heaven.
    Well it seems you can EZ... Perhaps attempt to watch the video this time, don't worry the point i outlined at 44 mins is only a few mins long, and please try to refrain from hysterical exclamations of "i saw hdreams with the devil...... i saw smiley with the devil".
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Posts
    239
    smiley
    Presumably it would not be beyond the power of an all-powerful being to grant entrance to heaven to only the religious side of the person. This would throw a spanner in the works of the soul department. Would it mean that this person (effectively being 2 people) has 2 souls? How did this second soul emerge? Or would only half a soul get to heaven?
    Perhaps souls simply divide through Mitosis, creating a cloned soul akin to twins. I don't see how this could be reconciled though theologically. A god presumably would have no issue as you say separating the two consciousnesses and allocating them their new accommodation in Heaven/Hell but it would get complicated also in that once you have split the brain, the person up to that point no longer exists. So in theory Patient A give rise to B and C. So rather than need one extra soul you might need two, this might require a more meiotic approach to soul division
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,657
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    Well it seems you can EZ...
    Maybe in somebody's fantasy land but not in real life. And it's not in the Bible either.
    “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” - Robert Jastrow

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by Easyrider View Post
    Maybe in somebody's fantasy land but not in real life. And it's not in the Bible either.
    Split brain patients are not in the bible, astounding....

    Unfortunately this is real life EZ, i am assuming you still haven't watched the video.




    I would be curious to know if the consciousnesses were aware of each other, and if so would they argue? With one half controlling speech and the other having access to motor function it could almost be a comedy script...

    Also their is an interesting point relating to mysticism and denial in Ramachandra's lecture. It point out the ability of certain temporal lobe trauma epilepsy patients to be in complete denial about certain aspects such as the loss of a limb or the fact that a limb/hand wasn't theirs and yet retain what we would call normality and coherence of thought.
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,117
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    Perhaps souls simply divide through Mitosis, creating a cloned soul akin to twins. I don't see how this could be reconciled though theologically. A god presumably would have no issue as you say separating the two consciousnesses and allocating them their new accommodation in Heaven/Hell but it would get complicated also in that once you have split the brain, the person up to that point no longer exists. So in theory Patient A give rise to B and C. So rather than need one extra soul you might need two, this might require a more meiotic approach to soul division
    Things always get 'complicated' when theology comes across the obstacle of reality. Don't worry though, at this point the religious can just make more stuff up out of thin air. With a bit of luck, two or more of these new 'epiphanies' will become popular, and christianity will have to split once more to avoid infighting. It's always fun to watch. That'll make around 1003 different denominations who all claim to have 'THE TRUTH'.

    Fortunately, none of these complications will be too much for Allah to cope with. They'll all end up in the same place anyway.
    Religion is the placebo of the masses - House.
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people - House.
    God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance - Neil deGrasse Tyson.
    That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,117
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    Split brain patients are not in the bible, astounding....
    I'm not sure you're correct on that one.

    OT - God: Kill, burn, rape, pillage. I am a jealous god. Bow down before me or prepare to die.

    NT - God: Love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek, give everything you have to the poor. I love you all.

    My case rests.
    Religion is the placebo of the masses - House.
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people - House.
    God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance - Neil deGrasse Tyson.
    That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Phuket, Thailand
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by smiley View Post
    I'm not sure you're correct on that one.

    OT - God: Kill, burn, rape, pillage. I am a jealous god. Bow down before me or prepare to die.

    NT - God: Love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek, give everything you have to the poor. I love you all.

    My case rests.
    I think that is more evidence of a divine split personality disorder, akin more to bipolar... Perhaps a regime of Lithium and mood stabilizers can help smooth the differences between the OT and NT....
    "Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed"

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,117
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdreams View Post
    I think that is more evidence of a divine split personality disorder, akin more to bipolar... Perhaps a regime of Lithium and mood stabilizers can help smooth the differences between the OT and NT....
    I was going to suggest schizophrenia, but that is generally characterized by a deficit of typical emotional responses. This god character is rife with typical emotional responses, most of them negative: jealousy, anger, envy, greed etc.
    Religion is the placebo of the masses - House.
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people - House.
    God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance - Neil deGrasse Tyson.
    That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •