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Thread: Abortion

  1. #1
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    Abortion

    Can any pro-choicers provide credible science that an unborn is anything other than a unique individual living human being from the moment of conception? If they are, Black's Law Dictionary 9th ed. (the most credible legal dictionary in America and the one referenced by higher courts) defines Person as 'A human being.' This would grant unborns the right to life as afforded by the constitution.

    I can provide provide plenty to the contrary:
    Nealis v. Baird, 996 P.2d 438, 453 (Okla. 1999) “Contemporary scientific precepts accept as a given that a human life begins at conception.” (citing KEITH L. MOORE & T.V.N. PERSAUD, THE DEVELOPING HUMAN 14 (5th ed. 1993); SUSAN TUCKER BLACKBURN & DONNA LEE LOPER, MATERNAL, FETAL AND NEONATAL PHYSIOLOGY: A CLINICAL PERSPECTIVE 49 (1992); MICHAEL R. HARRISON ET AL., THE UNBORN PATIENT: PRENATAL DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT 14 (1984); DALE RUSSELL DUNNIHOO, M.D., PH.D., FUNDAMENTALS OF GYNECOLOGY AND OBSTETRICS 286–99 (1990)

    "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."
    M. Allen et. al., "The Limits of Viability." New England Journal of Medicine. 11/25/93: Vol. 329, No. 22, p. 1597.

    John C. Fletcher, Mark I. Evans, "Maternal Bonding in Early Fetal Ultrasound Examinations," New England Journal of Medicine, February 17, 1983.
    "Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being—a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings."

    Carlson, Bruce M. Patten, Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3); "Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, as an individual member of that species."

    .Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 2007), 2-18.The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 8th ed. “Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

    Ronan R. O'Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55. Human Embryology & Teratology "Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human being is thereby formed... The zygote ... is a unicellular human being... "The ill-defined and inaccurate term pre-embryo, which includes the embryonic disc is not used in this book."

    Gilbert, Scott F. Developmental Biology. 9th ed. Sunderland, MA: Sinauer, 2010. “Fertilization is the process whereby the sperm and the egg—collectively called the gametes—fuse together to begin the creation of a new individual whose genome is derived from both parents.”

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoLong View Post
    Can any pro-choicers provide credible science that an unborn is anything other than a unique individual living human being from the moment of conception? If they are, Black's Law Dictionary 9th ed. (the most credible legal dictionary in America and the one referenced by higher courts) defines Person as 'A human being.' This would grant unborns the right to life as afforded by the constitution.

    I can provide provide plenty to the contrary:
    Nealis v. Baird, 996 P.2d 438, 453 (Okla. 1999) “Contemporary scientific precepts accept as a given that a human life begins at conception.” (citing KEITH L. MOORE & T.V.N. PERSAUD, THE DEVELOPING HUMAN 14 (5th ed. 1993); SUSAN TUCKER BLACKBURN & DONNA LEE LOPER, MATERNAL, FETAL AND NEONATAL PHYSIOLOGY: A CLINICAL PERSPECTIVE 49 (1992); MICHAEL R. HARRISON ET AL., THE UNBORN PATIENT: PRENATAL DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT 14 (1984); DALE RUSSELL DUNNIHOO, M.D., PH.D., FUNDAMENTALS OF GYNECOLOGY AND OBSTETRICS 286–99 (1990)

    "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."
    M. Allen et. al., "The Limits of Viability." New England Journal of Medicine. 11/25/93: Vol. 329, No. 22, p. 1597.

    John C. Fletcher, Mark I. Evans, "Maternal Bonding in Early Fetal Ultrasound Examinations," New England Journal of Medicine, February 17, 1983.
    "Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being—a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings."

    Carlson, Bruce M. Patten, Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3); "Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, as an individual member of that species."

    .Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 2007), 2-18.The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 8th ed. “Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

    Ronan R. O'Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55. Human Embryology & Teratology "Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human being is thereby formed... The zygote ... is a unicellular human being... "The ill-defined and inaccurate term pre-embryo, which includes the embryonic disc is not used in this book."

    Gilbert, Scott F. Developmental Biology. 9th ed. Sunderland, MA: Sinauer, 2010. “Fertilization is the process whereby the sperm and the egg—collectively called the gametes—fuse together to begin the creation of a new individual whose genome is derived from both parents.”


    So you are saying identical twins are one in the same person?



    And human chimeras are multiple people in one body?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweet View Post
    So you are saying identical twins are one in the same person?



    And human chimeras are multiple people in one body?
    Chimeras are the result of two distinct individual human beings fusing.

    While the fact that identical twins have the same genetic code is interesting, I fail to see how it relates to the topic.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoLong View Post
    Chimeras are the result of two distinct individual human beings fusing.

    While the fact that identical twins have the same genetic code is interesting, I fail to see how it relates to the topic.

    "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."

    conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being—a being that is alive and is a member of the human species.

    "Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, as an individual member of that species."

    “Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell, a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”


    a new, genetically distinct human being is thereby formed... The zygote ... is a unicellular human being...

    “Fertilization is the process whereby the sperm and the egg—collectively called the gametes—fuse together to begin the creation of a new individual whose genome is derived from both parents.”

    I don't understand how this can hold true, if we are unique individuals (persons) from the moment of conception in the case of idetical twins where does the second unique individual (person) come from?
    If conception = person that would mean identical twins are one in the same "person", no?

    And the same for Chimeras, if 2 unique individuals (persons) are concived, then fused together and are born one as one, what happened to the second unique individual (person)?
    Are they 2 people in one body?

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