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Thread: The Entitlement Mentality

  1. #1
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    The Entitlement Mentality

    In this modern age of education I cannot imagine how we can be having the class envy debate we are having in this great nation today.

    But alas, when the Government is being run down by a bunch of educated derelicts who have no clue what type of Republic we are, I can see how the dialogue can get so distorted.

    It is also apparent to me that our education system has failed us massively when a sitting President and a Supreme Court Justice (more than one perhaps) find the Constitution an "inconvenience."

    It is also apparent when the citizens parrot the idiot rhetoric from the DNC that Government should work. Whenever someone makes such a laughably absurd claim, I know they haven't the first clue about our Government or the Constitution.

    This election is very important in that we have a clueless XXXXX currently sitting in the White House that is nothing more than an admonisher and divider. This is not leadership; it is raw ugly political partisanship on display for all to see.

    So with this, I thought it would be a good time to educate those who would be dumb enough to once again vote for this butt clown who infests the White House with his ignorance so that perhaps they can make a more informed decision in November.

    The United States is not a "Democracy." It is a "Republic" of States. With that, States have rights and our electoral system was set up in that States, not individuals, decide who the next President will be which is the reason we can elect a President even if they do not garner a majority of the popular vote.

    This is a good thing; it prevents larger cities and states from riding roughshod over the less populated agrarian states and gives equal representation.

    The genius of our founders can never be underestimated.

    In addition, the Federal Government was not set up so that it can work to create jobs, or housing, or welfare or any of the other well intentioned misguided leftist policies Liberals like to claim in their efforts to falsely suggest they CARE more than anyone else.

    The Federal Government was set up to administer our laws and defend the nation; nothing more, nothing less.

    The brilliance of our founders was that they set up a form of Government where it would be very difficult for it to work against the interests and LIBERTIES of its citizens. In other words, preserving our liberty was more important than ensuring Congress would "work."

    This is why we have a separation of powers through the Executive branch, Legal and Legislative branch. This is why Congress was divided between states representatives based on population and a Senate with two members from each state.

    The irony of the Liberals point of view is that Government is a GOOD thing; BUT only if THEIR guys are in charge. Well good luck with that Liberals. You cannot always win politically and there will always be OTHER guys in charge.

    Government is NOT a good thing; it is a necessary evil. Liberal Government that creates dependency on Government is the worst form of Government because it erodes your liberties and choices.

    I cannot imagine why anyone would argue we need MORE Government or that creating a dependent class of citizens to the Federal Government is a "good" idea.

    Today’s debates center around the class envy claim that the Rich do not pay their fair share and that the only equitable way to solve this is to permit the Government more power to steal the wealth at the threat of a gun and re-distribute it the way the current politicians in power deem to be fair. I cannot fathom a more laughably dumb argument.

    History is littered with the failures of well-intentioned Liberal policies. It is also littered with the economic failures of those policies. We didn't enter a serious recession because the rich have too much wealth; we entered it because the Government attempts to manage wealth and the economy. But alas, Government cannot even manage its own budget or even pass one for that matter; how can one actually argue it can manage something as complex as the US economy?

    So get the facts, learn your history and let's get rid of this idiot before he buries us in another $5 trillion debt and massive trillion dollar deficits with his divisive laughably ignorant rhetoric.

    Carry on.

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    What Is the Difference Between a Republic and a Democracy?

    Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    ....So get the facts, learn your history and let's get rid of this idiot before he buries us in another $5 trillion debt and massive trillion dollar deficits with his divisive laughably ignorant rhetoric.

    Carry on.

    1

    What Is the Difference Between a Republic and a Democracy?

    Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Boy! You are as much of a blowhard as Ted Nugent and I had to dump most of your crapola because it was totally worthless.

    Let's take a look at President Obama's so-called "trillion dollar debt."

    The first thing the President did was to knock off George W. Bush's lies about the debt and deficit and stop the off-budget funding of Bush's wars which were not accounted for in the national debt and deficit.

    If you can't handle the raw truth about our nation's debts and deficits and you prefer leaders who lie about it, move to another country.

    I prefer to know the truth: the truth about how much a war is costing, the truth about how much war profiteering contractors are profiting from Bush's wars, the truth about how much George W. Bush's tax cuts for his rich friends are costing us, the truth about how much George W. Bush's Medicare Part D, which was a big handoff to his rich pharmaceutical buddies, really cost.

    There you have the truth about our huge deficit: Bush's Wars, Bush's tax cuts, Bush's Medicare Part D, none of which were paid for or budgeted for.

    We are paying for the economic lies of Bush. That's where the deficit is.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    Boy! You are as much of a blowhard as Ted Nugent and I had to dump most of your crapola because it was totally worthless.
    The only one spewing a vast pile of leftist bile would be you and your desperate laughably uniformed and false assertions.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    Let's take a look at President Obama's so-called "trillion dollar debt."

    The first thing the President did was to knock off George W. Bush's lies about the debt and deficit and stop the off-budget funding of Bush's wars which were not accounted for in the national debt and deficit.
    Once again the tired and old leftist BS that it is all Bush’s fault. Even four years later after the leftists on the Democrat side of the aisle passed every liberal leftist agenda they desperately love, it is still Bush’s fault.

    It is apparent that you couldn’t read, comprehend or interpret factual data if it slapped you upside your thick uniformed skull.

    The reason the debt has been mounting under Democrats and Democrat leadership is because they couldn’t find a spending program they didn’t like. On top of this, they couldn’t pass a budget while they held a majority in BOTH houses of Congress and instead went on a spending binge passing their beloved health care program, their beloved $trillion stimulus package along party lines and yet here you go spewing your uninformed bile that it is all about war spending.

    Rather than troll this forum with your abject ineffectual BS, why not provide some FACTS to support your hysterics. I won’t hold my breath however; you have shown a profound disregard for facts, truth and honesty in your desperate attempts to defend the indefensible and this idiot of a President.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    If you can't handle the raw truth about our nation's debts and deficits and you prefer leaders who lie about it, move to another country.
    Coming from you this comment is laughably ironic. You have never posted a fact to support your emotional hysterics nor would you be able to find any. But I will gladly wait while you desperately search the internet for something, anything, which will remotely support your laughably dumb assertions here.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    I prefer to know the truth: the truth about how much a war is costing, the truth about how much war profiteering contractors are profiting from Bush's wars, the truth about how much George W. Bush's tax cuts for his rich friends are costing us, the truth about how much George W. Bush's Medicare Part D, which was a big handoff to his rich pharmaceutical buddies, really cost.
    Another laughably ironic comment coming from someone who so obviously avoids the truth as to make false laughably uninformed claims about things they know nothing about. As I stated earlier, if you want to bring some facts to support your emotional hysterics, I am prepared to debate them. Otherwise, this is more of the same ineffectual blather you are known for on this forum containing nothing more substantive than “because you say so.”

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    There you have the truth about our huge deficit: Bush's Wars, Bush's tax cuts, Bush's Medicare Part D, none of which were paid for or budgeted for.
    I am quite certain that uniformed leftists like you will continue blaming Bush on into the 22nd century. Facts have no bearing on such massive disregard for facts or the truth. The irony here is that you think you could recognize the facts or truth if they walked up an introduced themselves to you.

    But here are some FACTS; the deficit prior to Americans being duped into voting in Democrats as a majority in the House and Senate was at $161 billion. By the time Americans realized what a massive mistake that was; the deficit had ballooned to over $1 trillion.

    Look at the actual data yourself; or do you prefer making up your own tables?

    Historical Tables | The White House

    FACT: Bush didn’t cause the implosion of the housing market; that was the work of previous administrations, congress and the Federal Government’s well-meaning liberal efforts to reduce the credit requirements of those who wanted to buy homes and then when confronted with the massive looming foreclosure rates; claimed that the Republicans on the House Committees trying to do something about them were engaging in racism.

    Don’t believe me; here is the video, pay special attention to what Democrats like Maxine Waters says about Frankin Raines who corrupted the agency and profited from his mismanagement of the agency:

    Senate Committee Hearings on Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 2004 - YouTube


    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    We are paying for the economic lies of Bush. That's where the deficit is.
    You would be wrong again; but at least you are consistent. We are paying for the economic lies of this Administration, the Democrats who have spent us into an additional $5 trillion in debt and $1.3 trillion deficits as far as the eye can see with NOTHING to show for it in return.

    Yes, it is always convenient for Liberals to ignore the facts, realities and truth; but for many, these things are as obvious as the growing nose liberals faces as they lie, divert, distort and obfuscate the truth.

    The notion that we can sustain four more years of these butt clowns who have wasted billions in taxpayer money on green energy initiatives, allowed the deaths of thousands in the gun running to Mexican drug cartels, and who show such disdain for our Constitution defies good common sense.

    Obama is a failure; his signature legislation will be stricken down as unconstitutional and his other massive spending legislation the pork laden stimulus bill has done nothing but bury generations in massive debt while doing NOTHING to improve the economy. This administration is so retarded that it now wants to double down with porkulus II claiming that a massive $500 billion program will do what the $trillion program couldn’t. Of course anyone with half a brain can see through such idiotic nonsense; that is except those who still desperately cling to hopey changey and this idiot of a President whose experience is tantamount to a Jr. Senator from the outback.

    Like I said, November cannot get here soon enough. The faster we send the XXXXXX infesting this Government with the inane divisive bile filled rhetoric, the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The United States is not a "Democracy." It is a "Republic" of States. With that, States have rights and our electoral system was set up in that States, not individuals, decide who the next President will be which is the reason we can elect a President even if they do not garner a majority of the popular vote.

    This is a good thing; it prevents larger cities and states from riding roughshod over the less populated agrarian states and gives equal representation.
    No it is not, states are no more moral than individuals and are themselves of arbitrary size and composition. How can you say at once that something gives equal representation and it is not democratic? It's an oxymoron, equal representation would be each vote counts for the same, not city votes count for less because they happened to crowd into one state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The genius of our founders can never be underestimated.
    I have to hope that a better understanding exists and can be applied because the genius of our founders allowed the civil war and every violation of rights before and after it up till this very day, and is the form of the government you are attacking right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The brilliance of our founders was that they set up a form of Government where it would be very difficult for it to work against the interests and LIBERTIES of its citizens. In other words, preserving our liberty was more important than ensuring Congress would "work."

    This is why we have a separation of powers through the Executive branch, Legal and Legislative branch. This is why Congress was divided between states representatives based on population and a Senate with two members from each state.
    They did everything except define those liberties in such language that there could be no legal reinterpretation. I would have traded all the 'checks and balances' for one absolute statement of moral truth. The constitution is a manual and it has not protected our rights in the one way it needed to, from the laws of the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Government is NOT a good thing; it is a necessary evil.
    Ah ha, Brutus said that this view was not normal among the right, I think it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Today’s debates center around the class envy claim that the Rich do not pay their fair share and that the only equitable way to solve this is to permit the Government more power to steal the wealth at the threat of a gun and re-distribute it the way the current politicians in power deem to be fair. I cannot fathom a more laughably dumb argument.
    Perhaps the founders were so enlightened they couldn't either because they placed no protection from it in our constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    The first thing the President did was to knock off George W. Bush's lies about the debt and deficit and stop the off-budget funding of Bush's wars which were not accounted for in the national debt and deficit.
    Right, and this president is so honest he ordered that included in the deficit. Show me that order.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    If you can't handle the raw truth about our nation's debts and deficits and you prefer leaders who lie about it, move to another country.
    The truth is madman such as Obama (but in congress) are spending money they don't have taking out loans on authority they were not given. You cannot lay the debt on Bush because if Bush's finances were bad that only heightens the responsibility not to spend more money, this past government has.
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    Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    The United States is not a "Democracy." It is a "Republic" of States. With that, States have rights and our electoral system was set up in that States, not individuals, decide who the next President will be which is the reason we can elect a President even if they do not garner a majority of the popular vote.

    This is a good thing; it prevents larger cities and states from riding roughshod over the less populated agrarian states and gives equal representation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    No it is not, states are no more moral than individuals and are themselves of arbitrary size and composition. How can you say at once that something gives equal representation and it is not democratic? It's an oxymoron, equal representation would be each vote counts for the same, not city votes count for less because they happened to crowd into one state.
    You must be a product of the American public school system to make such uninformed comments. It is apparent that you are quite clueless what our Constitution contains and that we are indeed a Republican of States and have an “electoral” representation process and NOT a one vote one citizen Democracy.

    I cannot blame you however for being so uninformed, it is what has happened when unions run our public schools and institutions and work so hard to dumb citizens down into thinking that Liberal politics which promise the uninformed and gullible something for nothing and making them wards of the state is a good idea.

    Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    The genius of our founders can never be underestimated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    I have to hope that a better understanding exists and can be applied because the genius of our founders allowed the civil war and every violation of rights before and after it up till this very day,
    I am curious how it was the founders that allowed the Civil War; do provide some form of coherent credible argument of how our founders creation of this greatest political document known to man directly led to the mistakes of the Civil War. Which by the way were defended and corrected by a REAL REPUBLICAN leader like Lincoln and not the buffoonery we now see mis-leading this nation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    …and is the form of the government you are attacking right now.
    Apparently you have a reading disorder, I am not attacking our form of Government; exactly the opposite, I am defending it. What I am attacking are the idiot attempts of Democrats and Liberals and in particular this President who thumb their noses at it and find the Constitution an impediment to their asinine farcical attempts to turn all of us into willful dependent wards of the “State.”

    It is ironic that there are many like you who apparently have swallowed their form of kool-aid.


    Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    The brilliance of our founders was that they set up a form of Government where it would be very difficult for it to work against the interests and LIBERTIES of its citizens. In other words, preserving our liberty was more important than ensuring Congress would "work."

    This is why we have a separation of powers through the Executive branch, Legal and Legislative branch. This is why Congress was divided between states representatives based on population and a Senate with two members from each state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    They did everything except define those liberties in such language that there could be no legal reinterpretation. I would have traded all the 'checks and balances' for one absolute statement of moral truth. The constitution is a manual and it has not protected our rights in the one way it needed to, from the laws of the government.
    Of course this is nothing more than an opinion lacking any factual substance to defend it. Apparently your version of liberty is incredibly different from the dictionary version that many of us do comprehend.

    Liberty does not come from Government; it comes from being free from Government.

    The reason for the checks and balances and the separation of powers contained in the Constitution was based on the KNOWLEDGE and experience that a powerful central Government can and will usurp liberties and enslave the citizens. By creating a REPUBLIC and not a straight democracy, and limiting the role of central Government to defense and administering our laws, the genius of our founders can truly be seen.

    Unfortunately, and because many are products of our failed educational institutions dominated by liberal politics, many like you ignorantly believe that Government can provide safety and liberty and therefore support XXXXXX like those running the DNC and this putz of a President who wouldn’t know what leadership is if it slapped him upside his uniformed arrogant and demonstrably thick head.

    Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    Government is NOT a good thing; it is a necessary evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Ah ha, Brutus said that this view was not normal among the right, I think it is.
    Brutus? Really?



    Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    Today’s debates center around the class envy claim that the Rich do not pay their fair share and that the only equitable way to solve this is to permit the Government more power to steal the wealth at the threat of a gun and re-distribute it the way the current politicians in power deem to be fair. I cannot fathom a more laughably dumb argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Perhaps the founders were so enlightened they couldn't either because they placed no protection from it in our constitution.
    This statement makes little sense; but then it is consistent with many of your weak retorts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    The truth is madman such as Obama (but in congress) are spending money they don't have taking out loans on authority they were not given. You cannot lay the debt on Bush because if Bush's finances were bad that only heightens the responsibility not to spend more money, this past government has.
    Something we are in total agreement on. The irony for Liberals is that when Bush ran up a deficit which at its height amounted to a mere $400 billion they were having conniptions. But now with their guys in charge, spending this great nation into a mountain of debt and $1.3 trillion deficits is somehow a good thing.

    But here is a FACT; before Americans were duped into voting into power Democrats in 2008, the deficit had been managed down to about $170 billion. Democrats promised Americans fiscal restraint and deficit containment; they lied. This is typical with Democrats who count on the uninformed to keep them elected and hope that Americans have the memory of a lemming so that they cannot be held accountable for the lies, distortions and deflections and continue to promise Americans something for nothing by further eroding their liberties and making them willing dependent wards of the State and permanent voting blocks.

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    ....So get the facts, learn your history and let's get rid of this idiot before he buries us in another $5 trillion debt and massive trillion dollar deficits with his divisive laughably ignorant rhetoric.

    Carry on.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    Boy! You are as much of a blowhard as Ted Nugent and I had to dump most of your crapola because it was totally worthless.
    I am quite certain that the irony of your rhetoric escapes you.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    Let's take a look at President Obama's so-called "trillion dollar debt."
    Yes let’s take a look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    The first thing the President did was to knock off George W. Bush's lies about the debt and deficit and stop the off-budget funding of Bush's wars which were not accounted for in the national debt and deficit.
    Once again you would be wrong; but at least you are consistent. The laughable claim that the budget deficits recorded for the record did not contain the war spending is a lie. Bush’s deficits amounted to about $400 billion; Obama’s are in the $1.3 trillion. BIG difference; but again, the irony of being Liberal is to wallow in ignorance and hypocrisy of how the deficits are created and believe that massive deficit spending is okay, but only if YOUR guys are spending it right?

    I suggest that you come up with something a little more substantive than “because you say so” in these debates. It truly is a waste of time to debate someone so lacking in even basic facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    If you can't handle the raw truth about our nation's debts and deficits and you prefer leaders who lie about it, move to another country.
    I am quite certain the irony of this remark also escapes you. I have yet to see anything remotely linked to the “truth” coming from you. Most of your comments are OPINIONS based on nothing more substantive than parroting DNC talking points or because you say so.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    I prefer to know the truth: the truth about how much a war is costing,
    REALLY? Okay tell me how much Obama has spent on the war since he took office.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    the truth about how much war profiteering contractors are profiting from Bush's wars,
    REALLY? Okay tell us how much contractors are profiteering from the war and how this has never occurred and still not occurring under Obama.

    By the way, this wasn’t “Bush’s” war; that is a laughably ignorant partisan claim that avoids the reality and truth which you have shown an incredible propensity for. It was OUR war voting for by BOTH parties with high public approval ratings.
    Because you are gullible like many Americans who follow the mainstream media, you are now trying to re-write the historic record to fit a narrow myopic political agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    There you have the truth about our huge deficit: Bush's Wars, Bush's tax cuts, Bush's Medicare Part D, none of which were paid for or budgeted for.
    Nothing here but false claims; but who would ever accuse you of having any facts right?

    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    We are paying for the economic lies of Bush. That's where the deficit is.
    You are truly comedic in your diatribes about Bush. I am hardly surprised that even after Democrats and Liberals got their majorities in Congress to pass all their beloved social welfare programs and supposed “stimulus” that after they are shown to be a massive failure and buried us in massive additional debt and deficits they would still be desperately blaming Bush for their failure.

    But then, you epitomize the type of voter that Obama needs to stay elected; uninformed, gullible, factually challenged and economically ignorant.

    Here is a great interview of Obama voters as they went to the polls:

    How Obama Got Elected... Interviews With Obama Voters - YouTube

    Here is a great clip from Howard Stern’s radio show where they reversed McCain's policies with Obama's to see if they still supported Obama, talk about DUMB:

    Stupid Obama Voters - YouTube

    Carry on.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    You must be a product of the American public school system to make such uninformed comments. It is apparent that you are quite clueless what our Constitution contains and that we are indeed a Republican of States and have an “electoral” representation process and NOT a one vote one citizen Democracy.
    I have read the constitution at least 50 times in my life, I did not mean to say it was not so, I meant to say it was not good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I cannot blame you however for being so uninformed, it is what has happened when unions run our public schools and institutions and work so hard to dumb citizens down into thinking that Liberal politics which promise the uninformed and gullible something for nothing and making them wards of the state is a good idea.
    You are unaware of my education, it is inappropriate to draw conclusions from it even if you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I am curious how it was the founders that allowed the Civil War; do provide some form of coherent credible argument of how our founders creation of this greatest political document known to man directly led to the mistakes of the Civil War. Which by the way were defended and corrected by a REAL REPUBLICAN leader like Lincoln and not the buffoonery we now see mis-leading this nation?
    The civil war was about slavery, slavery was not dealt with because not absolute statement of rights exists in
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Apparently you have a reading disorder, I am not attacking our form of Government; exactly the opposite, I am defending it. What I am attacking are the idiot attempts of Democrats and Liberals and in particular this President who thumb their noses at it and find the Constitution an impediment to their asinine farcical attempts to turn all of us into willful dependent wards of the “State.”
    Now it's my turn to say you haven't read the constitution. This government is not violating the constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Of course this is nothing more than an opinion lacking any factual substance to defend it. Apparently your version of liberty is incredibly different from the dictionary version that many of us do comprehend.
    Factual substance? Taxation, regulation and the social engineering that the governments both federal and state participate in. Violations of liberty, not unconstitutional. Done.

    If you think it protects us and it only isn't because people are ignoring it then let's discuss some examples. Congress chooses to establish a 90% federal income tax for anyone who earns more than 10,000 above median wage. They also establish a program which will supplement any wage up to 10,0000 below median wage.

    As you well know if you don't pay income taxes they will drain your bank accounts and eventually start confiscating your property and selling it. What in the constitution prevents this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Liberty does not come from Government; it comes from being free from Government.
    and from private criminals as well, so how could any constitution establish that the government should not behave criminally when it does not define what liberty is and declare it inviolate even to the government? Recognizing

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The reason for the checks and balances and the separation of powers contained in the Constitution was based on the KNOWLEDGE and experience that a powerful central Government can and will usurp liberties and enslave the citizens. By creating a REPUBLIC and not a straight democracy, and limiting the role of central Government to defense and administering our laws, the genius of our founders can truly be seen.
    Well this government is usurping liberties and enslaving citizens, so we need a plan C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Unfortunately, and because many are products of our failed educational institutions dominated by liberal politics, many like you ignorantly believe that Government can provide safety and liberty and therefore support XXXXXX like those running the DNC and this putz of a President who wouldn’t know what leadership is if it slapped him upside his uniformed arrogant and demonstrably thick head.
    If it cannot provide safety by protecting liberty what use is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Brutus? Really?
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    But here is a FACT; before Americans were duped into voting into power Democrats in 2008, the deficit had been managed down to about $170 billion. Democrats promised Americans fiscal restraint and deficit containment; they lied. This is typical with Democrats who count on the uninformed to keep them elected and hope that Americans have the memory of a lemming so that they cannot be held accountable for the lies, distortions and deflections and continue to promise Americans something for nothing by further eroding their liberties and making them willing dependent wards of the State and permanent voting blocks.
    So you are saying that the budget plans when Bush went out would have reduced the deficit to 170 billion?
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

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