Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: 16 Afghan Civilians killed by US soldiers: Did Obama Lost control over his fighters?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    29

    16 Afghan Civilians killed by US soldiers: Did Obama Lost control over his fighters?


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Under your bed, waiting for you to fall asleep.
    Posts
    3,125
    No. Obama didn't lost control any more than Bush didn't lost control at Abu Ghraib.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,414
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    No. Obama didn't lost control any more than Bush didn't lost control at Abu Ghraib.
    Yea... but the left blamed bush for every water boarding and every friendly fire event. This isn't about blaming obama, it's about exposing hypocrisy.
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Under your bed, waiting for you to fall asleep.
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Yea... but the left blamed bush for every water boarding and every friendly fire event. This isn't about blaming obama, it's about exposing hypocrisy.
    There is a difference between the policy of an administration and the actions of one deranged man. How is waterboarding detainees the same as a soldier snapping and going on a killing spree?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Posts
    303
    I held back on commenting on the soldier who killed the Afghan civilians. I wanted some facts. His name is staff sergeant Robert Bales, and he was in his 4th tour of duty in Afghanistan and Iraq. He had been wounded and decorated. He made it known that he did not want to return to that God-forsaken place. One night the stress got to him, and he did what he did.

    America has not won a war since the atomic bomb. It is always the same. We out-kill our enemies, then spend billions to rebuild their nations. They pour into American cities, changing our color and reshaping the culture of our parents and grandparents. The incident in Afghanistan made me think of Lieutenant Calley and what was called the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. Calley eventually rose out of his nightmare, and I hope this Afghanistan soldier does, too. What is war? Is it a game played by a set of rules? Are there referees to penalize participants if they break the rules? Are players only permitted to kill certain individuals with impunity? Kill within boundaries? It sounds like a game of croquet!

    To my thinking, Afghanistan and Iraq were Bush’s wars until Bin Laden was killed. Then, they became Obama’s wars. Obama could have and should have brought our troops home the day after they got Bin Laden. He did not do it. Now, he apologizes. He apologizes for Koran burnings. He apologizes for a soldier freaking out and going on a killing spree.

    In my mind Obama is not an American. He is an African. His father was an African, and so is he. All the paperwork in the world does not make it any different. America as we have known it for 236 years grew out of the European Renaissance. Virtually every scientific and technological advance known to man sprang from the minds of white Europeans and their descendants. It was they who ultimately walked on the moon; not Africans; not Chinese; not Muslims.

    Now, there is a great “malaise” (to use Jimmy Carter’s word) in this nation and among European-Americans. Young people mutilate their bodies with tattoos and piercings (I find it hard to talk to a woman with a tattoo) while older Americans retire to their television sets to watch black men dunk basketballs. People whiz up and down the streets in their SUVs (wasting gas) with cell phones stuck in their ears or stand on corners punching hand-held devices as if to simply be seen. Computers and social networking are serving only to increase the distances between us.

    No, I cannot blame Robert Bales for going off the deep end. Was there not a movie called Apocalypse Now in which Marlon Brando did a similar thing in Nam?

    Unlike Obama, Mitt Romney is not ashamed of American greatness and does not apologize for it.

    No Apology @ Amazon Amazon.com: No Apology: The Case for American Greatness (9780312609801): Mitt Romney: Books
    Mitt Romney official Support Mitt Romney for President - 2012 Republican Candidate
    My Mitt Jim Colyer
    God Given Talent CD @ my site

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,414
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Colyer View Post
    I held back on commenting on the soldier who killed the Afghan civilians. I wanted some facts. His name is staff sergeant Robert Bales, and he was in his 4th tour of duty in Afghanistan and Iraq. He had been wounded and decorated. He made it known that he did not want to return to that God-forsaken place. One night the stress got to him, and he did what he did.

    America has not won a war since the atomic bomb. It is always the same. We out-kill our enemies, then spend billions to rebuild their nations. They pour into American cities, changing our color and reshaping the culture of our parents and grandparents. The incident in Afghanistan made me think of Lieutenant Calley and what was called the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. Calley eventually rose out of his nightmare, and I hope this Afghanistan soldier does, too. What is war? Is it a game played by a set of rules? Are there referees to penalize participants if they break the rules? Are players only permitted to kill certain individuals with impunity? Kill within boundaries? It sounds like a game of croquet!

    To my thinking, Afghanistan and Iraq were Bush’s wars until Bin Laden was killed. Then, they became Obama’s wars. Obama could have and should have brought our troops home the day after they got Bin Laden. He did not do it. Now, he apologizes. He apologizes for Koran burnings. He apologizes for a soldier freaking out and going on a killing spree.

    In my mind Obama is not an American. He is an African. His father was an African, and so is he. All the paperwork in the world does not make it any different. America as we have known it for 236 years grew out of the European Renaissance. Virtually every scientific and technological advance known to man sprang from the minds of white Europeans and their descendants. It was they who ultimately walked on the moon; not Africans; not Chinese; not Muslims.

    Now, there is a great “malaise” (to use Jimmy Carter’s word) in this nation and among European-Americans. Young people mutilate their bodies with tattoos and piercings (I find it hard to talk to a woman with a tattoo) while older Americans retire to their television sets to watch black men dunk basketballs. People whiz up and down the streets in their SUVs (wasting gas) with cell phones stuck in their ears or stand on corners punching hand-held devices as if to simply be seen. Computers and social networking are serving only to increase the distances between us.

    No, I cannot blame Robert Bales for going off the deep end. Was there not a movie called Apocalypse Now in which Marlon Brando did a similar thing in Nam?

    Unlike Obama, Mitt Romney is not ashamed of American greatness and does not apologize for it.

    No Apology @ Amazon Amazon.com: No Apology: The Case for American Greatness (9780312609801): Mitt Romney: Books
    Mitt Romney official Support Mitt Romney for President - 2012 Republican Candidate
    My Mitt Jim Colyer
    No doubt about it, you're a racist nut job like poet.
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Under your bed, waiting for you to fall asleep.
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Colyer View Post
    I held back on commenting on the soldier who killed the Afghan civilians. I wanted some facts. His name is staff sergeant Robert Bales, and he was in his 4th tour of duty in Afghanistan and Iraq. He had been wounded and decorated. He made it known that he did not want to return to that God-forsaken place. One night the stress got to him, and he did what he did.
    All of the above are facts, except for the last bolded statement. That is your opinion...nothing more. I'll wait to see what Bales has to say about what he allegedly did.

    America has not won a war since the atomic bomb. It is always the same. We out-kill our enemies, then spend billions to rebuild their nations. They pour into American cities, changing our color and reshaping the culture of our parents and grandparents. The incident in Afghanistan made me think of Lieutenant Calley and what was called the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. Calley eventually rose out of his nightmare, and I hope this Afghanistan soldier does, too. What is war? Is it a game played by a set of rules? Are there referees to penalize participants if they break the rules? Are players only permitted to kill certain individuals with impunity? Kill within boundaries? It sounds like a game of croquet!
    Ever heard of ROE? (Rules of Engagement) for those who don't habla. Yes, there are instances where deadly force is authorized. There are instances where it is not authorized. Killing non-combatant civilians (including men, women, and children who were by all accounts sleeping in their homes) would certainly violate the ROE. Are you suggesting that we should simply drop our troops in hot and let them run wild killing anything they find?

    To my thinking, Afghanistan and Iraq were Bush’s wars until Bin Laden was killed. Then, they became Obama’s wars. Obama could have and should have brought our troops home the day after they got Bin Laden. He did not do it. Now, he apologizes. He apologizes for Koran burnings. He apologizes for a soldier freaking out and going on a killing spree.
    Did he apologize...or did he call and offer condolences and make a promise to fully investigate and bring to justice anyone found guilty of such deplorable conduct?

    Quote Originally Posted by President Obama
    "I am deeply saddened by the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians. I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering. This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan. I fully support Secretary Panetta's and General Allen's commitment to get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible."-President Obama
    In my mind Obama is not an American. He is an African. His father was an African, and so is he. All the paperwork in the world does not make it any different. America as we have known it for 236 years grew out of the European Renaissance. Virtually every scientific and technological advance known to man sprang from the minds of white Europeans and their descendants. It was they who ultimately walked on the moon; not Africans; not Chinese; not Muslims.
    What a load of racist s-hit. Here...only a small list of things a handful of black Americans have done...there are many more.
    Famous Black Inventors

    Now, there is a great “malaise” (to use Jimmy Carter’s word) in this nation and among European-Americans. Young people mutilate their bodies with tattoos and piercings (I find it hard to talk to a woman with a tattoo) while older Americans retire to their television sets to watch black men dunk basketballs. People whiz up and down the streets in their SUVs (wasting gas) with cell phones stuck in their ears or stand on corners punching hand-held devices as if to simply be seen. Computers and social networking are serving only to increase the distances between us.
    This has what to do with the topic at hand?

    No, I cannot blame Robert Bales for going off the deep end. Was there not a movie called Apocalypse Now in which Marlon Brando did a similar thing in Nam?
    What justifies him allegedly killing a dozen or so innocent civilians again? Surely not the fact that there was a movie with a plot similar to what he did?

    Unlike Obama, Mitt Romney is not ashamed of American greatness and does not apologize for it.
    Burning people's religious texts and killing innocent men, women, and children in the middle of the night are not "American greatness". If you think they are, I'm ashamed to call you a fellow American.
    Last edited by snakespit; 03-21-2012 at 12:26 AM.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,414
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    What a load of racist s-hit. Here...only a small list of things a handful of black Americans have done...there are many more.
    Famous Black Inventors
    Oh wonderful a race war. That's what I call the intense stupidity that follows when you accept the premises of a racist and proceed to start comparing races as if they were concrete entities.
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,575
    Matters pertaining to race and ethnic origin are of no relevance to the discussion concerning this soldier and his actions in Afghanistan. He is responsible for his own actions and should be addressed instead of attempting to sway the discussion to another topic.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Under your bed, waiting for you to fall asleep.
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Oh wonderful a race war. That's what I call the intense stupidity that follows when you accept the premises of a racist and proceed to start comparing races as if they were concrete entities.
    There is no race war. I was responding to a specific point that Jim was trying to make.

    He said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Colyer
    Virtually every scientific and technological advance known to man sprang from the minds of white Europeans and their descendants.
    His point has been disproven. End of issue.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,414
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    He said:
    His point has been disproven. End of issue.
    and if he had said native American would you just go on a more intensive quest? What about aboriginal Australian?

    If someone said women are physically weak thus they deserve no rights would you challenge that premise or start looking for women body builders?
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Under your bed, waiting for you to fall asleep.
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    and if he had said native American would you just go on a more intensive quest? What about aboriginal Australian?

    If someone said women are physically weak thus they deserve no rights would you challenge that premise or start looking for women body builders?
    No, I would point to the contributions by native Americans and aboriginal Australians, and point out how women pound for pound are as capable as men...thus challenging the premise and defeating his argument in one XXXX.

    The question is, what is your point?

    -Jim proposed A. -rediculous it was, and easily refuted with evidence.

    -I refuted A with evidence. -to my mind...end of discussion.

    -You got whiney and started spouting about a race war. -not exactly sure what your problem is, but remember, it is your problem...not mine.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,414
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    No, I would point to the contributions by native Americans and aboriginal Australians
    Go ahead. ---
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,854
    Bales didn't snap, that's a mealy-mouthed excuse. He didn't run amok and shoot up the barracks, he sneaked out in disguise and executed children. He took revenge for his fellow soldiers, killed after the Koran-burning incident. General Allen specifically told the troops when it happened, that "now is not the time for vengeance", So Bates waited 3 weeks.
    " ... It's not as though he proved anything, he only refuted my evidence. ..." Archangel 04.01.09

    "Obama is not a brown-skinned anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You're thinking of Jesus."

    “Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil.”

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Under your bed, waiting for you to fall asleep.
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Go ahead. ---
    Sorry to have to tell you this, but I don't bark on command for you Freedom.

    But then again, you're not making the point that "virtually every scientific and technological advance known to man sprang from the minds of white Europeans and their descendants", are you?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •