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Thread: How can one establish the existence of unimaginable God?

  1. #1
    dattaswami Guest

    How can one establish the existence of unimaginable God?

    In this world several miracles happen. The miracle is unimaginable but still it exists. The boundary of this Universe is also unimaginable, but it must exist. Therefore, the proof of the existence of unimaginable item exists in this world. In fact to give the proof of the existence of unimaginable nature, God created this unlimited Universe with unimaginable boundary. The same God shows various miracles in this world so that the existence of unimaginable nature is established; thereby the existence of unimaginable God is also established by the extension of the concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattaswami View Post
    In this world several miracles happen. The miracle is unimaginable but still it exists. The boundary of this Universe is also unimaginable, but it must exist. Therefore, the proof of the existence of unimaginable item exists in this world. In fact to give the proof of the existence of unimaginable nature, God created this unlimited Universe with unimaginable boundary. The same God shows various miracles in this world so that the existence of unimaginable nature is established; thereby the existence of unimaginable God is also established by the extension of the concept.
    What miracles ?...name them
    Richard Dawkins quote..
    .'I dont think its a very important question whether Jesus existed. Some historians.. MOST historians think he did.
    I dont really care, precisely because its petty. Maybe I've alluded to the possibilty that some historians think Jesus never existed. I take that back Jesus existed........

  3. #3
    dattaswami Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    What miracles ?...name them
    Only atheists deny miracles. Science keeps silent about the miracles because it cannot explain the miracles. Silence does not mean negation. In the books of science you do not find any topic with the name “denying miracles”. It only mentions the topics like light, heat, electricity etc., which are the topics of analysis of known and knowable items of the world. It never touches the unknown and unknowable aspects. In fact the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg establishes that there are certain concepts, which are beyond the accuracy of our senses and even sophisticated instruments like electron microscope etc. Therefore, science is neutral and cannot be added to atheists or theists.

    The atheists are definitely in negligible minority compared to theists. Therefore, people denying miracles fall under minority only. The theists also accept the concepts proved by science, which are related to the world. These theists accept miracles also as unimaginable events about which science does not speak at all. Therefore, there is no contradiction between theists and science. The theist never says that the revolution of fan is unimaginable miracle and hence, the theists never oppose science. In fact, atheists oppose science by denying miracles about which science keeps silent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattaswami View Post
    Only atheists deny miracles. Science keeps silent about the miracles because it cannot explain the miracles. Silence does not mean negation. In the books of science you do not find any topic with the name “denying miracles”. It only mentions the topics like light, heat, electricity etc., which are the topics of analysis of known and knowable items of the world. It never touches the unknown and unknowable aspects. In fact the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg establishes that there are certain concepts, which are beyond the accuracy of our senses and even sophisticated instruments like electron microscope etc. Therefore, science is neutral and cannot be added to atheists or theists.

    The atheists are definitely in negligible minority compared to theists. Therefore, people denying miracles fall under minority only. The theists also accept the concepts proved by science, which are related to the world. These theists accept miracles also as unimaginable events about which science does not speak at all. Therefore, there is no contradiction between theists and science. The theist never says that the revolution of fan is unimaginable miracle and hence, the theists never oppose science. In fact, atheists oppose science by denying miracles about which science keeps silent.
    I'll try again..what miracles are you referring to?
    Richard Dawkins quote..
    .'I dont think its a very important question whether Jesus existed. Some historians.. MOST historians think he did.
    I dont really care, precisely because its petty. Maybe I've alluded to the possibilty that some historians think Jesus never existed. I take that back Jesus existed........

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattaswami
    The theist never says that the revolution of fan is unimaginable miracle and hence, the theists never oppose science.
    What exactly was the "revolution of fan"? Like a ceiling fan?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  6. #6
    dattaswami Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    What exactly was the "revolution of fan"? Like a ceiling fan?
    The earth is not rotating by itself. Then why the fan is also not rotating by itself? As the invisible current is rotating the fan, the invisible God is rotating the earth. The rotation of earth is work of God. The earth is also the work of God. The rotation of fan is work. The fan is matter. Matter is a form of energy. Energy is work. Therefore the fan is also a form of work only. Thus everything is dynamism (work) only. The dynamo is God. You will immediately say that the dynamo is matter, matter is energy and since work is energy, dynamo is also a form of work. Then you will say God is also a form of work. This is the problem with the simile for God. Every simile is only a part of the creation and cannot stand as a perfect representation of the creator. God is beyond the concepts of work and no work because God is unimaginable.

    You can infer the existence of God through this entire wonderful creation (work). But you cannot experience directly unless He enters a particular form of His work which is a human body like Rama, Krishna etc. You can infer the engineer by seeing the wonderful building constructed by him which is his work. But he is present only in a small room of that building. If you want to have a direct contact with him, you should search the room in which he is present. Since the whole building is his construction only, if you sit in some vacant room and try to talk with him, he will not speak to you. You have to identify that specific room in which he is present. In searching for the engineer you may find some other person in some room and can mistake him also as the engineer. Therefore you must have the knowledge of his identification.

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    I'm sorry I asked...and yet amused at the same time.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

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    Wheres those miracles then?
    Name a few...third time of asking
    Richard Dawkins quote..
    .'I dont think its a very important question whether Jesus existed. Some historians.. MOST historians think he did.
    I dont really care, precisely because its petty. Maybe I've alluded to the possibilty that some historians think Jesus never existed. I take that back Jesus existed........

  9. #9
    dattaswami Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    Wheres those miracles then?
    Name a few...third time of asking
    When a person deserve a miracle it will be done by God. God will not do miracles for crowd pulling. If you deserve it it will happen even without your begging!

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    Let me try gansao.

    Dattaswami: Can you give any examples of the miracles that you are talking about?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  11. #11
    dattaswami Guest

    Miracles of dattaswami

    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    Wheres those miracles then?
    Name a few...third time of asking

    Miracles indicate the unimaginable nature of God, which indicates the existence of unimaginable God. God exhibits the super power of the miracle for a particular deserving devotee only like the cosmic vision to give support to a concept in the spiritual knowledge given to Arjuna (a devotee) during the discourse of Gita. It is also used to protect deserving devotees like lifting Govardhana hill and it is also used to punish the evil forces like killing demons sent by Kamsa demon. Such protection and punishment through exhibition of miracles indicate the proof that God does the protection and punishment always even in the absence of such exhibition.

    The miracles in general indicate the basic existence of God and hence they are exhibited starting from demons to the human incarnation as police uniform starting from a constable to the top most official. Krishna performed a series of miracles in a selected place of Brundavanam for a selected group of devotees called Gopikas who were the most deserving sages. Later on, Krishna performed the miracles very rarely whenever there was a bare necessity in His view. Through out the Kurukshetra war He performed only one miracle that is hiding the Sun by His Chakra.

    The series of miracles was performed in His childhood as the introduction card, without which no body can identify God. Similarly, God in this human body of this Datta Swami performed a series of miracles within a period of two years before He started the mission spreading divine knowledge exactly 16 yrs back. Latter on the stress on miracles was reduced and stress was given on knowledge and devotion. Krishna limited the spiritual discussion (Gita) only to a particular devotee like Arjuna and also limited His divine love only to a limited set of deserving devotees like Gopikas, Sudama etc. Therefore, the deservingness of the devotee limits the number of devotees.

  12. #12
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    I have yet to ever use the ignore feature on this forum, but I am now giving it serious consideration.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

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    This fellow seems to have united the members of this forum more than anyone Ive ever seen.We all think he's full of xxxx
    Richard Dawkins quote..
    .'I dont think its a very important question whether Jesus existed. Some historians.. MOST historians think he did.
    I dont really care, precisely because its petty. Maybe I've alluded to the possibilty that some historians think Jesus never existed. I take that back Jesus existed........

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    He's already banned from numerous websites.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

  15. #15
    dattaswami Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    I have yet to ever use the ignore feature on this forum, but I am now giving it serious consideration.
    God created this entire universe for own entertainment. He is not a politician to get followers or worshipers. He already bored with lot of fame and name in the upperworld. For a change He comes to this world in human form, so that He can enjoy even the insult by atheists! Miracles are performed by God when there is an inevitable need for a good devotee, otherwise not. Miracle means the violation of the regular administration of God to be done by God Himself! Unless there is an extraordinary emergency in the case of a deserving devotee or a specific need in the divine mission of God, miracle does not appear. The devotee deserves a miracle when he or she does not aspire for it even in dream and is really involved in the divine mission of the Lord. This is the context of the miracle from the side of the devotee. The miracle can also take place from the side of God whenever a need arises in the divine work. If God feels that an atheist can be converted through a miracle, it takes place.

    If God feels that a miracle can improve the faith or devotion of a devotee, then also a miracle can happen. These two cases are from the side of God and not from the side of devotee. This means that if the devotee says that he will be converted or he will develop the faith and devotion by a miracle, God will not do the miracle unless in His view there is a real hope for it. Even without the request from devotee or atheist, God will exhibit the miracle if God has hope. In any case the devotee should not aspire for the miracle even in the mind.

    The miracle will happen spontaneously if God is convinced. There is no need of any initiation or interaction from the side of the soul. Even a deserving devotee sometimes reduces the speed of the miracle by aspiring for it. The whole problem lies with miracles is that the attention of the soul to God is completely diverted to His power only.

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