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Thread: Study: Sexual behavior changes but not sexual orientation

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoshu View Post
    They are just being true to themselves, by following their religion. I don't think people like yourself have the slightest clue how life-changing religion can truly be.
    But their religion is failing them, by requiring them to behave contrary to their nature. Don't see how this is being totally true to themselves.

    It is arbitrary that religion proscribe homosexual behavior. I know that is so because many relogions do not. Religion's change their policies all the time. Even yours.

    You have inadvertently stated the problem. Yes, indeed, religion can be life-changing. It can force a person into a sexless life or marry someone whom they are not attracted to and ruin two lives.

    And they are fooled into thinking they are making this sacrifice to please god.

    Our sexual selves is not the "be all and end all" (to use that fukcing trite term you are fond of) of our existence, but it is part of it. And denying it deprives us. Heterosexuals don't have to make that sacrifice.
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" - Bertrand Russell

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelmoose View Post
    But their religion is failing them, by requiring them to behave contrary to their nature. Don't see how this is being totally true to themselves.
    Their physical nature is being supplanted by their spiritual nature.
    If a person's nature is to do bad things, then they NEED to act contrary to their nature. And their religion--THEIR beliefs--are that it is a bad thing. We see this phenomenon anytime someone reforms a part of their life from that which feels natural to them. They've chosen those beliefs as they feel it is right for them. Again, for people whom sexual orientation is a huge deal to them, this is going to be incomprehensible. So I don't expect you to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by thelmoose View Post
    You have inadvertently stated the problem. Yes, indeed, religion can be life-changing. It can force a person into a sexless life or marry someone whom they are not attracted to and ruin two lives.
    No, not force. People are not automatons. THEY decide these things. The real culprit here is your movement which would deny them the respect to do what they want with THEIR life just because it is not what you think they should do. YOU'RE the one who needs to keep your views out of their bedroom.

    The only sort of person who would view this a "ruining their lives" is someone for who's life is too wrapped up in their orientation to begin with. (Like yourself and others in your movement.) Since that's not the sort of person who would seek to live as an ex-gay anyway, it's a moot concern.
    “We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” - Reagan

    "A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading."
    - C. S. Lewis

    "I suffer more harassment as a former homosexual than I ever did as an out and proud homosexual." - Greg Quinlan, PFOX

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    Strawman
    You aren't even using the terms right.
    I never claimed that was your argument.
    That was clearly my personal opinion of your actions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom
    I didn't ask you...
    You responded directly to me with the non-topical commentary.
    If you "didn't ask me", then don't hit "Reply" to my post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom
    ... it is not an off topic question by far.
    But it is an off topic question, regardless of how far you perceive it to be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom
    Whose unable to answer yes or no questions now
    I am able.
    I am just unwilling to respond directly to somebody who refuses to extend the same courtesy.
    If you show a willingness to respond "yes or no" to a yes or no question, then I'll do the same.
    "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
    You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
    *** Jamie Raskin

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoshu View Post
    Their physical nature is being supplanted by their spiritual nature.
    If a person's nature is to do bad things, then they NEED to act contrary to their nature. And their religion--THEIR beliefs--are that it is a bad thing. We see this phenomenon anytime someone reforms a part of their life from that which feels natural to them. They've chosen those beliefs as they feel it is right for them. Again, for people whom sexual orientation is a huge deal to them, this is going to be incomprehensible. So I don't expect you to understand.
    It's funny to see you act like you've got this almighty knowledge that the rest of us can't comprehend.
    It's funny to see how you don't seem to get that we understand what prejudice and bigotry can do to a person who has that prejudice, yet IS that thing he is prejudiced against.
    Most of us have friends that went through that.
    THAT is what YOU don't seem to get, and instead you couch your petty replies in this stupid *your sexual orientation is a huge deal to you* junk.

    Quite frankly, if your prejudice wasn't such a huge deal to you, YOU would see that.
    So I don't expect you to understand.

    Regarding your claims, it's quite frankly on par with the "masturbation" thing.
    People have an urge to masturbate. A lot of people think there is nothing wrong with that.
    The bible has CLEAR passages that have been clearly interpreted to be AGAINST (at the very least male) masturbation.
    Yet modern Christianity habitually IGNORES those passages and doesn't make a comment as the vast majority of the population does masturbate.

    The truly funny thing, and I realize you are too caught up in your prejudice being a big deal for you, so we don't expect you to understand ...
    ... is that Christianity has this habit OF IGNORING the things that are popular amongst Christians.
    Masturbation. Divorce. Greed.
    Failing to follow Jesus's commands to pluck the beam out of thy own eye first...

    But when it comes to "homosexuality"? An equally (IMO) idiotic restriction from the bible placed on mankind?
    There aren't enough gay Christians (for some Christian sects) to make them look the other way.


    Quote Originally Posted by jyoshu
    No, not force. People are not automatons. THEY decide these things. The real culprit here is your movement which would deny them the respect to do what they want with THEIR life just because it is not what you think they should do. YOU'RE the one who needs to keep your views out of their bedroom.
    Again, there is a SERIOUS IRONY in that you are trying to chastise gays FOR SOMETHING YOU YOURSELF ARE GUILTY OF with regards to your treatment of gays.

    And there is a HUGE GLARING DIFFERENCE here that, again, is going to be incomprehensible to you.

    Like I said earlier, most of us have friends that have at least gone through the rudimentary initial stages of the "ex-gay" self-hatred.
    And we recognize THE HARM that such things cause...

    And while each person is going to have to find their own path, it is just plain wrong when the ex-gay community lies about what they say they can do.

    It is just plain wrong when they take an innocent teen-ager who has admitted he is gay or whose parents think he is gay, so they stick him in an "ex-gay" group to "change" him.
    Zach Stark was told by a counselor that he would be better off dead than gay.
    And while that is an extreme in somebody ex-gay actually saying it, it's that sort of screwed up thought process that leads to the gay teen suicide rate.

    And finally, it is exceedingly stupid to make that demand on gays, WHEN THE EX-GAY COMMUNITY REFUSES TO DO LIKEWISE.
    (And like an honest reflection on your own actions, you aren't going to understand this either...)
    YOU posted that Quinlan interview.
    Okay? YOU did that.
    Can you THINK about what Quinlan actually did in the minutes he had in that interview?
    APPLY YOUR STANDARD to Quinlan, except with regards to gays...

    Did HE meet your standard, except on the subject matter of gays???

    No. He didn't.
    He repeatedly attacked gays in a way that you demand we leave ex-gays alone.


    Quote Originally Posted by jyoshu
    The only sort of person who would view this a "ruining their lives" is someone for who's life is too wrapped up in their orientation to begin with. (Like yourself and others in your movement.) Since that's not the sort of person who would seek to live as an ex-gay anyway, it's a moot concern.
    Oh. Jyoshu.
    Your ignorance on this subject is just STAGGERING.
    Over and OVER and OVER again, these ex-gay antics ARE FAILURES.

    What you don't seem to grasp is that there is a problem on the back-end when the "I'm not gay" brain-washing wears off and the person REALIZES they are still gay...
    ... but they still have that "Gays are just awful people" brain-washing still intact.
    The self-hatred that is generated by the ex-gay community, YET THEY CANNOT CHANGE people is something the ex-gay community REFUSES to admit.

    THAT is how lives get "ruined" and it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how much you mistakenly believe that gays are "wrapped up in their orientation".

    Intellectually, you are just plain a coward.
    I hope that someday you will have the honesty to examine your own actions and behavior and philosophy to realize you demand of others what you yourself refuse to live by.
    "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
    You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
    *** Jamie Raskin

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoshu View Post
    Their physical nature is being supplanted by their spiritual nature.
    If a person's nature is to do bad things, then they NEED to act contrary to their nature. And their religion--THEIR beliefs--are that it is a bad thing. We see this phenomenon anytime someone reforms a part of their life from that which feels natural to them. They've chosen those beliefs as they feel it is right for them. Again, for people whom sexual orientation is a huge deal to them, this is going to be incomprehensible. So I don't expect you to understand.



    No, not force. People are not automatons. THEY decide these things. The real culprit here is your movement which would deny them the respect to do what they want with THEIR life just because it is not what you think they should do. YOU'RE the one who needs to keep your views out of their bedroom.

    The only sort of person who would view this a "ruining their lives" is someone for who's life is too wrapped up in their orientation to begin with. (Like yourself and others in your movement.) Since that's not the sort of person who would seek to live as an ex-gay anyway, it's a moot concern.

    The religion is assuming, for purely arbitrary reasons, that homosexual behavior is bad. This is a chosen position by your religion. It is an excuse for continuing archaic ideas and it the source of this problem.

    Remove the proscriptions against homosexuality and there would be no need for exgays to have to go through these machinations. They "decide" to follow this idiotic path because they are told they are going to hell if they don't.
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" - Bertrand Russell

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelmoose View Post
    The religion is assuming, for purely arbitrary reasons, that homosexual behavior is bad. This is a chosen position by your religion. It is an excuse for continuing archaic ideas and it the source of this problem.
    Speaking of archaic behavior and beliefs, illicit gay sex, ala Sodom and Gomorrah variety, is way up there at the top of the list.
    “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” - Robert Jastrow

  7. #37
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    simamura

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