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Thread: Merry Christmas in America!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Jones View Post
    You haven't read Washington's words in battle, his acceptance speech as president nor his dream have you? His farewell address?

    Go to NARA and see living history of the Supreme court building beginning with the doors and take the tour then deny this Republic was not founded on the Judeo-Christian ethic. Our laws are based on our Christian heritage and lucky for you too.

    In Norse, Odin was the superior mythical god.
    In regard to George Washington:
    Washington gives us little in his writings to indicate his personal religious beliefs. As noted by Franklin Steiner in "The Religious Beliefs Of Our Presidents" (1936), Washington commented on sermons only twice. In his writings, he never referred to "Jesus Christ." He attended church rarely, and did not take communion ... . When trying to arrange for workmen in 1784 at Mount Vernon, Washington made clear that he would accept "Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists." Washington wrote Lafayette in 1787, "Being no bigot myself, I am disposed to indulge the professors of Christianity in the church that road to heaven which to them shall seem the most direct, plainest, easiest and least liable to exception."

    Clear evidence of his personal theology is lacking, even on his deathbed when he died a "death of civility" without expressions of Christian hope. His failure to document beliefs in conventional dogma, such as a life after death, is a clue that he may not qualify as a conventional Christian. ... He was complimentary to all groups and attended Quaker, German Reformed, and Roman Catholic services. In a world where religious differences often led to war, Washington was quite conscious of religious prejudice. However, he joked about it rather than exacerbated it. ..

    Washington was an inclusive, "big tent" political leader seeking support from the large numbers of Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians, and Quakers in Virginia, and even more groups on a national level. He did not enhance his standing in some areas by advocating support for a particular theology, and certainly did not identify "wedge issues" based on religious differences. Instead, in late 1775, Washington banned the Protestant celebration of the Pope's Day (a traditional mocking of the Catholic leader) by the Continental Army. He deplored the sectarian strife in Ireland, and wished the debate over Patrick Henry's General Assessment bill would "die an easy death."

    .... Wahington understood the distinction between morality and religion, and between toleration of differences and full religious liberty. Washington's replies to messages from Jews and Swedenborgians showed he was not merely accepting the differences of religion, tolerating those who had not chosen the correct path. Instead, he endorsed what Jefferson would later define as a "wall of separation between church and state."

    .... Mason Locke Weems manufactured stories to establish Washington as a pious Christian... Weems was a parson, and his inaccuracies (including the moralistic "I can not tell a lie" tale about cutting down a cherry tree) have shaped the perspective of Washington for two centuries now.

    .... Those who attempt to project a religious theology upon Washington often seek to connect theological beliefs with civic benefits, assuming morality is based on religion. In contrast, Madison and others crafted a government that could succeed even if Americans were not angels, thanks to a balance of powers. Jefferson and other "natural law" theorists assumed that individuals in a mature society would follow a common set of ethical principles, independent of the different religious beliefs held by individuals.

    .... However, there is little in Washington's life to suggest he would support a political movement based primarily on a moral agenda. To make such a claim requires that we project a light upon the monument of Washington, then look at our own reflected light and claim its source to be Washington. The "myth of Washington" created during his life and shortly thereafter by Parson Weems is not static. Even today, Washington's life can be re-shaped when necessary to fulfill the agenda of a modern mythmaker...
    George Washington and Religion

    Hope that you can handle a few facts and the truth, DJ, and Odin was a quasi-homosexual deity who hung out with the quasi-homosexual Loki, the lying, devious, devilish trickster.

    Thor was the more "manly" nature's god of thunder, a deity who truly liked and loved women.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    In regard to George Washington:

    George Washington and Religion

    Hope that you can handle a few facts and the truth, DJ, and Odin was a quasi-homosexual deity who hung out with the quasi-homosexual Loki, the lying, devious, devilish trickster.

    Thor was the more "manly" nature's god of thunder, a deity who truly liked and loved women.
    There is no site that does not list the Greek gods as anything but myth. This is where pansieism got started, have you hugged a tree today?

    Been to the NARA archives yet BJ?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    In regard to George Washington:

    George Washington and Religion
    Looks like you didn't read enough simone?
    George Washington's Farewell Address

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Jones View Post
    You haven't read Washington's words ;;;; His farewell address? ....
    DJ, George Washington makes no mention of God, Jesus, Christ, the Creator, or anything of that sort in his farewell address. Are you deliberately lying about this speech or were you totally ignorant of its content?
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    DJ, George Washington makes no mention of God, Jesus, Christ, the Creator, or anything of that sort in his farewell address. Are you deliberately lying about this speech or were you totally ignorant of its content?
    He didn't have to, he had already disavowed all foreign religions.

    27 Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
    31 Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and Morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be, that good policy does not equally enjoin it? It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and, at no distant period, a great Nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence.
    The rest of it sounds just exactly like Ron Paul.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    DJ, George Washington makes no mention of God, Jesus, Christ, the Creator, or anything of that sort in his farewell address. Are you deliberately lying about this speech or were you totally ignorant of its content?
    Go to the NARA archives and take the tour. Note the doors and quotes and also the 10 commandments and other edifices inside the building we call the Supreme Court.

    Now run along and play with yourself, old doc got other interests at the moment. Don't forget Washington's words, Religion and Morality are inseparable. Good government depends on them. Notice also he mentioned this Republic.

  7. #22
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    I wonder what Washington's religion was. He never showed his face in a church.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    I wonder what Washington's religion was. He never showed his face in a church.
    Religion and the Federal Government: PART 1 (Religion and the Founding of the American Republic, Library of Congress Exhibition)

    Apparently an Episcopal Vestryman according to this. His face hangs in a church in Virginia so at least his face did show in one church.

    The darn Redcoats kept burning churches down with everyone in them apparently. The Church of England was a good warning not to mix government business with religion or else the church would wind up running it.

    My guess is that the church of sour mash was most appealing to most politicians then as it was now. Perhaps the officers' club?

    Good to see ya Simone. Happy New Year. I keep telling you to visit the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) site. You can spend all day there and have a blast.

  9. #24
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    Have a blast? I do believe that was a pun.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    They weren't necessarily Christians and Thor IS nature's god.
    OK. What were the religions of the founding fathers?

    You have the floor. Convince me.

    What were their opinions on guns?

  11. #26
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    According to wikpedia:
    Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and three were Roman Catholics (C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

    A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin. A few others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.
    Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A number of them were actually practicing churchmen (they showed up at services, gave money, etc.,) but they thought it was stupid and divisive to make a big fuss about it because they were horrified by the stupid, bloody religious wars in Europe.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    According to wikpedia:

    Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A number of them were actually practicing churchmen (they showed up at services, gave money, etc.,) but they thought it was stupid and divisive to make a big fuss about it because they were horrified by the stupid, bloody religious wars in Europe.
    Maybe that's why there's the first amendment,to try and avoid those bloody wars.Perhaps I,m taking it out of context though and when you say"bloody" you mean like(bloody good show old chap.)

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    According to wikpedia:

    Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A number of them were actually practicing churchmen (they showed up at services, gave money, etc.,) but they thought it was stupid and divisive to make a big fuss about it because they were horrified by the stupid, bloody religious wars in Europe.
    You clean up real nice and put on some new threads and lookin' good

  14. #29
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    I thought you might be interested in this Gallup Poll simone:

    Gallup: 92% of Americans believe in God

    Not sure if politicians are part of the other 8% since they seem to have trouble following even their oath of office and marrage vows. Most would probably sell their souls to the devil to get elected or re-elected and change their stances and lie, cheat and steal.

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