Poll: Does the fifth commandment mean "Kill" or "Murder?"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Does the fifth commandment mean "kill" or "murder?"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    127

    Does the fifth commandment mean "kill" or "murder?"

    This has popped up quite a bit. Give me your answer!!!
    "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? -Romans 9:19-21 (NASB)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    127
    I believe it means to murder. The Hebrew transcripts use the word "Ratsach" which translates to murder.
    "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? -Romans 9:19-21 (NASB)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,414
    It obviously means murder given the fact that Hebrews stoned people and fought wars.
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,854
    The hebrew phrase "lo tirtsach" can be translated either way. Within the context of the hebrew bible, with it's many imprecations against blood-guilt, almost all Jewish translations use "murder".
    " ... It's not as though he proved anything, he only refuted my evidence. ..." Archangel 04.01.09

    "Obama is not a brown-skinned anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You're thinking of Jesus."

    “Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil.”

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    7,353
    Killing another human being is a sin.

    Sometimes sinning is necessary.

    Don't waffle. Own it.

    Jesus urged mercy. Killing is the antithesis of mercy.

    What's a good alternative meaning for adultery?
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    Killing is the antithesis of mercy.
    A hunter shoots a deer. The deer is hit in the jaw. It is able to survive, but it will not be able to eat again. What do you do?

    I think killing it would be merciful in this case.
    "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? -Romans 9:19-21 (NASB)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Limeyland
    Posts
    7,893
    It would be merciful not to shoot the deer in the first place.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    It would be merciful not to shoot the deer in the first place.
    Ok, a deer that has been shot, but not mortally wounded is lying in your backyard... what now?
    "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? -Romans 9:19-21 (NASB)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Limeyland
    Posts
    7,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    Ok, a deer that has been shot, but not mortally wounded is lying in your backyard... what now?
    Phone the vet..and not a Iraq war vet

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    Phone the vet..and not a Iraq war vet
    I think I know where you are going with that, but I didn't want to humanize my argument, because I thought someone from an anti-war perspective would take my argument the wrong way.
    "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? -Romans 9:19-21 (NASB)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Limeyland
    Posts
    7,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    I think I know where you are going with that, but I didn't want to humanize my argument, because I thought someone from an anti-war perspective would take my argument the wrong way.
    We call veterinarians vets in the UK.
    You call ex servicemen vets in the US.
    I meant call a veterinarian not a man with a gun......

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    127
    oh ok. sorry for the confusion.
    "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? -Romans 9:19-21 (NASB)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,414
    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    Killing another human being is a sin.

    Sometimes sinning is necessary.

    Don't waffle. Own it.

    Jesus urged mercy. Killing is the antithesis of mercy.

    What's a good alternative meaning for adultery?
    Jesus didn't write the 10 commandments it's of more ancient hebrew origin. From the context of ancient jewish culture it could not have literally meant kill.
    Morals are a religious Myth.. - Xcaliber
    How is Evil Immoral? - Xcaliber
    I am right until you prove otherwise - Xcaliber

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    85
    Killing another human is a sin? Yet a great percentage of the "Old Testament" is about war. Didn't "God" lead the Jews to these victories?

    I personally do not think the Bible makes much sense.. but with that being said: the translation "murder" makes more sense than "kill".

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    4,778
    It says "thou shalt not kill" and it means "thou shalt not kill". Kill and murder are fairly interchangable. Of course, shortly after the commandments were introduced, hundreds of other laws were drafted, the majority of them with death as the penalty. Also, the very God that apparently gave Moses these commandments, later gave Moses the commandments to be as ruthless and merciless to their war enemies as possible. And of course if you were in the army and refused to comply with the commandment to kill (possibly because its confusing based on the other commandment to not kill) then you'd be killed, along with your family and possibly close friends and relatives.

    The essence of the commandments has absolutely nothing to do with what the commandments actually say. The moral is, obey whatever Moses says God says, regardless of what Moses said God said before, because God reserves the right to inform Moses that he has changed his mind about his absolute commandments whenever God deems it necessary. All you need to do is obey without question.
    when man tried to understand nature, theism was born
    when man tried to understand God, atheism was born

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •