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Thread: Was the stimulus $787 million or $14.2 trillion

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    Was the stimulus $787 million or $14.2 trillion

    Can someone explain this to me, please. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Can someone explain this to me, please. Thanks
    I have know idea how you got 14 trillion unless you are talking about the national debt which isn't a result of the stimulus. Last I read it was at 830 billion over 10 years up from its original estimate of 787 billion.

    Heritage says it will cost 3.27 trillion over 10 years but they reach that conclusion by assuming programs that by law stop after a period of time never do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pappillion001 View Post
    I have know idea how you got 14 trillion unless you are talking about the national debt which isn't a result of the stimulus.
    Why wasn't it a $14.2 stimulus?? Whats the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Why wasn't it a $14.2 stimulus?? Whats the difference?
    Because then we would have a roughly 28 trillion national debt less whatever revenue the stimulus genererated that could be used to pay it down.

    Personally I think the stimulus was a good idea poorly planned and executed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pappillion001 View Post
    Because then we would have a roughly 28 trillion national
    28???????? Why wasn't the $14 trillion enough of a stimulus??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    28???????? Why wasn't the $14 trillion enough of a stimulus??
    If you're suggesting that Obama has spent 14 trillion on Stimulus you're as ignorant as I believed you to be. Of the 14.3 trillion in National Debt 5 trillion was left over from the Clinton years, Obama has added another 4 trillion and the rest of it was your boy Bush..

    The Stimulus was 787 billion..

    here, get a clue..

    Recovery Act: How Obama's Stimulus Is Changing America - TIME
    "You're too stupid to be saved." -- EasyRider.


    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
    Epicurus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    28???????? Why wasn't the $14 trillion enough of a stimulus??
    I asked where you had gotten 14 trillion. You didn't answer instead you take my question and turn it into a statement and then fabricate a response as the basis of a question that makes no sense.

    The current national debt is 14 trillion. Included in that number is the original 787 billion that was the estimated cost of the stimulus package that was to soften the effects of the recession and promote recovery. The actual cost has risen according to the CBO to 830 billion over 10 years.

    Reagan put us on the path we now walk of mounting debt and Republicans have embraced his ideas even though they have never achieved the results they were supposed to.

    Clinton probably understood it best, if based only on results, that trickle down is not a permanant economic model. There cannot be a constant reduction in revenue with the belief that it will be increase by volume. All that does is cause you to work harder for the same or less. It also makes assumptions that were in fact discouraged by tax laws enacted afterwards. If Government expects the reduced tax rates to create surplus cash that is to flow into the domestic economy in the form of investment it has to make it harder to send that money offshore where returns might be higher or prevent it from being held and not put back in.

    We are living the results of their incompetance. This is a shortcoming of a 4 year term. Just when a shift away from trickle down becomes warranted the President is reelcted or a new one comes in and needs to fulfill promises made or implement new policy.

    The fact that Bush II massivly increased both the size and scope of government while hiding the costs of his actions was, I believe part of a plan to put the government in the hands of Republicans. If you look at the projections from 2005 - 2007 budgets, the 2009 and forward estimates are lousy. Bush new his legacy would prevent a Republican coming in, but if he handed him a time bomb that blew up as he entered office then the new Democratic President would spend his 1st term trying to fix it. A bad economy would most likely cause a change in the house or senate or both which would suppress any effort to recover until the new election. The Democratic President would suffer because of an ailing economy a Republican would be elected and they would then control government. Without any Democratic power to keep them in check they could bring the economy back up making everyone happy increasing their numbers and possibly holding a majority for at least 2 terms with 3 likely.

    Sound familiar so far?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    Obama has added another 4 trillion and the rest of it was your boy Bush..

    The Stimulus was 787 billion..
    So BO had $4 trillion in stimulus + 787. Why isn't economy booming?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pappillion001 View Post
    The current national debt is 14 trillion. Included in that number is the original 787 billion that was the estimated cost of the stimulus package that was to soften the effects of the recession and promote recovery. The actual cost has risen according to the CBO to 830 billion over 10 years.
    so why isn't the $14 trillion considered stimulus. PLease think about it before you answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    so why isn't the $14 trillion considered stimulus. PLease think about it before you answer.
    Why would it? It is comprised of incurred expense that that was specifically intended to help the economy, some was not but could be seen as doing so directly or indirectly and some was not intended as such and does not. Calling it all stimulus would be misleading and not accurate.

    Why do you think it should be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pappillion001 View Post
    Why would it? It is comprised of incurred expense that that was specifically intended to help the economy, some was not but could be seen as doing so directly or indirectly and some was not intended as such and does not. Calling it all stimulus would be misleading and not accurate.

    Why do you think it should be?
    of course stimulus spending took many many forms as did the $14.2 trillion liberal national debt. It is a huge lie to call one a stimulus and one not. They are both identical in that they represent government spending to bubble up the economy. IF 14.2 trillion did not work, 787 certainly did not work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    of course stimulus spending took many many forms as did the $14.2 trillion liberal national debt. It is a huge lie to call one a stimulus and one not. They are both identical in that they represent government spending to bubble up the economy. IF 14.2 trillion did not work, 787 certainly did not work.
    the 14.2 trillion debt is not all Liberal .. Factored into that was the two wars that Bush started that he had to Borrow to pay for and a few trillion in other spending he did before Obama came into office. Not everything that was spent was spent to help the economy so you can't call it stimulus. The 787 didn't work because it wasn't enough.
    "You're too stupid to be saved." -- EasyRider.


    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
    Epicurus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    the 14.2 trillion debt is not all Liberal ..
    of course it is Republicans since Jefferson have wanted a BBA 30 times and Democrats killed them every time, and are doing it again as we speak. Its totally irresponsible the BBA would in effect make Democrats illegal!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    Factored into that was the two wars that Bush started that he had to Borrow to pay for and a few trillion in other spending he did before Obama came into office. Not everything that was spent was spent to help the economy so you can't call it stimulus.
    how can spending not stimulate demand?? Econ 101
    Think!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    The 787 didn't work because it wasn't enough.
    It turns our $14.2 trillion was not enough either. Catching on now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    of course it is Republicans since Jefferson have wanted a BBA 30 times and Democrats killed them every time, and are doing it again as we speak. Its totally irresponsible the BBA would in effect make Democrats illegal!!




    how can spending not stimulate demand?? Econ 101
    Think!



    It turns our $14.2 trillion was not enough either. Catching on now?
    How can you be so ignorant.

    A BBA would also tie the hands of the Repugs when they wanted to go on another spending spree. You seem to forget the well known fact that Reagan almost tripled our national debt, Bush 1 .. doubled down on that.. Clinton balanced the budget and handed Bush 2 a surplus but instead of sticking with the balanced budget he could have had he again doubled the national debt.. Now Obama has added another 4 trillion...

    Hmm.. seem your Repugs are just as much to blame.. You getting it yet?
    "You're too stupid to be saved." -- EasyRider.


    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
    Epicurus

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    How can you be so ignorant.
    this ought to be good


    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    A BBA would also tie the hands of the Repugs when they wanted to go on another spending spree.
    I guess they don't mind since they proposed 30 of them since Jefferson while Democrats killed them all!! What does that tell you? Here's a question: would it be better to have $0 debt or $14 trillion?? Guess?


    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    You seem to forget the well known fact that Reagan almost tripled our national debt, Bush 1 .. doubled down on that..
    oh please spending comes from Congress


    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    Clinton balanced the budget and handed Bush 2 a surplus but instead of sticking with the balanced budget he could have had he again doubled the national debt.. Now Obama has added another 4 trillion...
    thanks for making the case for a BBA!!! Republicans have proposed 30 of them Democrats killed 30 of them and proposed none

    Quote Originally Posted by Xcaliber View Post
    Hmm.. seem your Repugs are just as much to blame.. You getting it yet?
    just as much?? when they proposed 30 BBA's??? and Democrats killed 30. Why not be a big boy and ask yourself why they have killed 30. Ans: it would end their ability to buy votes with promises of more and more welfare.

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