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Thread: Is privacy neccesary for freedom?

  1. #1
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    Is privacy neccesary for freedom?

    Its a common argument that by the government or other institute having the ability to monitor everything we do, it takes away our freedom. I don't see that. Does invasion of privacy really interfere with liberty?
    when man tried to understand nature, theism was born
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  2. #2
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    Unkerpaulie! Yes it does.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

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    Invasion of privacy not only interferes with liberty, it actually prevents it from being a possibility. When one has to worry at all times about whether or not the government is monitoring what they do in an attempt to find suspicious and potentially subversive activity it greatly interferes with a free society. The fear that can be generated by such an invasive policy, or the belief in such a policy, would not only hinder development and advancements in technology, it could easily generate distrust of the government and resentment, which would eventually lead to the formation of anti-government extremists who would be all too willing to engage in a war against the government.

    The government has far more pressing matters of importance than monitoring the private everyday events of the people of the nation.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

  4. #4
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    how exactly does the governement monitoring (or people being aware, or even suspicious) our private lives prevent us from doing whatever we want to do? the assumption here is that the only reason an institute would monitor people's private lives is to try to catch them in some incriminating act?
    when man tried to understand nature, theism was born
    when man tried to understand God, atheism was born

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkerpaulie View Post
    how exactly does the governement monitoring (or people being aware, or even suspicious) our private lives prevent us from doing whatever we want to do? the assumption here is that the only reason an institute would monitor people's private lives is to try to catch them in some incriminating act?
    No assumptions have been formed about what you may or may not do in your own home on your own time. But would you feel free to walk around your own house naked if you suspected or had reason to believe the government was monitoring your activity without your consent, disseminating the records to anyone either deliberately or through a breach of security? There was no consent given for anyone to monitor a person in such a state or compromise their privacy and security. Even if some would consent to such happening there are still those that wouldn't, making any such monitoring against their will. If such an act were committed by a private citizen it would be a criminal offense. The same should hold true for government institutions.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

  6. #6
    Zorba Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by unkerpaulie View Post
    Its a common argument that by the government or other institute having the ability to monitor everything we do, it takes away our freedom. I don't see that. Does invasion of privacy really interfere with liberty?
    Only a lunatic leftist would be stupid enough to even ask such an inane question.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Only a lunatic leftist would be stupid enough to even ask such an inane question.
    I think its a kind of interesting idea though Zorba dont you?
    Tescos knows a great deal about me through its clubcard scheme but that knowledge does not impede my liberty ..or does it?
    Ditto Google.
    I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

  8. #8
    Zorba Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    I think its a kind of interesting idea though Zorba dont you?
    Tescos knows a great deal about me through its clubcard scheme but that knowledge does not impede my liberty ..or does it?
    Ditto Google.
    I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
    Needless to say, we live in the information age when most all of our personal info is available to the powers that be through the interconnectedness of computers. It goes without saying that if our parents medical, financial and all around personal records were so susceptible to prying eyes a national revolt would have taken place.

    This generation has been slowly indoctrinated and manipulated like placing a frog in a pot of warm water, it gets hot so slowly it never feels the temperature rise and before it knows it, it's cooked. So it has been with our privacy rights that the average schmuck like unkerpaulie doesn't even know he has lost his freedom.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Needless to say, we live in the information age when most all of our personal info is available to the powers that be through the interconnectedness of computers. It goes without saying that if our parents medical, financial and all around personal records were so susceptible to prying eyes a national revolt would have taken place.

    This generation has been slowly indoctrinated and manipulated like placing a frog in a pot of warm water, it gets hot so slowly it never feels the temperature rise and before it knows it, it's cooked. So it has been with our privacy rights that the average schmuck like unkerpaulie doesn't even know he has lost his freedom.
    So ( obviously) you would trade the convenience of the information age for privacy and dignity ( I say dignity because google for instance may know more about a person than they would want known).

  10. #10
    Zorba Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    So ( obviously) you would trade the convenience of the information age for privacy and dignity ( I say dignity because google for instance may know more about a person than they would want known).
    The info available on Google is different than having ones medical and current itemized financial info available as the government can garner in short order today. I do see the intrusion of social networking as working against ones best self interest yet people today willingly reveal personal info that was unheard of just one generation ago.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    The info available on Google is different than having ones medical and current itemized financial info available as the government can garner in short order today. I do see the intrusion of social networking as working against ones best self interest yet people today willingly reveal personal info that was unheard of just one generation ago.
    I think that google will record all of the sites you log on to create a profile for advertising purposes.
    If there is a database that has all of the websites that you visit then Google will have a quite a lot of info about anyone that uses its search engine.

  12. #12
    Zorba Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    I think that google will record all of the sites you log on to create a profile for advertising purposes.
    If there is a database that has all of the websites that you visit then Google will have a quite a lot of info about anyone that uses its search engine.
    This is very true. I constantly see banner ads for items I have previously searched out when surfing the net now a days. But that isn't like seeing my medical or financial records in open format which would be unacceptable on so many levels. What is scary is that the government can access those records in short order without a warrant or even probable cause today. That is real intrusion into ones private life just as being able to track someones movements through their social network is unacceptably intrusive in my opinion.

  13. #13
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    I'd actually propose the opposite: careful monitoring is a prerequisite of freedom. Only by preventively finding threats and preventing them with minor interventions can we avoid having to resort to major limitations on freedom.

    In short, you're free to act because we already know that you're not going to do anything harmful.

  14. #14
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    It has been said a prerequisite of living in a free society is acceptance of the fact that there are always going to be criminal acts occurring due to those freedoms being exploited. Once those freedoms are altered in response to try and prevent such acts from being possible the society you hold so dear is no longer free.
    If one cannot have an argument without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and emotional rhetoric, then they have lost the argument from their first post.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Needless to say, we live in the information age when most all of our personal info is available to the powers that be through the interconnectedness of computers. It goes without saying that if our parents medical, financial and all around personal records were so susceptible to prying eyes a national revolt would have taken place.

    This generation has been slowly indoctrinated and manipulated like placing a frog in a pot of warm water, it gets hot so slowly it never feels the temperature rise and before it knows it, it's cooked. So it has been with our privacy rights that the average schmuck like unkerpaulie doesn't even know he has lost his freedom.
    Not surprising that you resort to attempts at personal attacks rather than discussing the topic. Your assertion that I've lost my freedom obviously baseless, but you already know this. What am I impeded from doing in this interconnected and info-sharing age that i (or anyone) was more free to do, say, 50 years ago? the trend is moving towards more monitoring, more open access to personal and formerly confidential info, and more acceptance of less "privacy" as the status quo.

    Bear in mind that the information flow is multi-lateral, and nobody has (or hypothetically should have) any upper hand as far as access to anybody else. in other words, let's say that its just as easy for the average joe to monitor the plans and agendas that the government has in the works, as is it for the government to observe you taking a XXXX. how exactly would such a scenario limit one's freedom?
    when man tried to understand nature, theism was born
    when man tried to understand God, atheism was born

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