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Thread: When Life Begins

  1. #1
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    When Life Begins

    This is one of the most fundamental questions in the abortion debate.

    When does life begin?

    And more importantly why do you believe that and what evidence do you have that supports that position?

  2. #2
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    Wasn't it about 3,5 billion years ago?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iuris View Post
    Wasn't it about 3,5 billion years ago?
    You're on the wrong board. You should go to the Creation/Intelligent Design vs. Evolution threads...

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    Quote Originally Posted by amirsdaddy View Post
    ...why do you believe that and what evidence do you have that supports that position?
    You first.

    IMO being alive isn't enough in itself to claim a right to self-determination.

    A brain dead patient in a hospital bed is alive.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    You first.

    IMO being alive isn't enough in itself to claim a right to self-determination.

    A brain dead patient in a hospital bed is alive.
    Ok...

    I KNOW life begins at conception.

    My reasoning? Medical and scientific fact.

    A sperm is a cell that contains human DNA and is specifically for reproducing. And an egg is the same. It's not until that sperm and egg meet (fertilization) in which 23 chromosomes from the mother and 23 chromosomes from the father create a unique individual with characteristics and traits all its own that previously had not existed. It is at this point when all the requirements to be considered life are met.

    The question wasn't when do RIGHTS begin, the question was when does LIFE begin.

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    Both sperm and ova are composed of living cells.

    Try again.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    Both sperm and ova are composed of living cells.

    Try again.
    So is your skin, your brain, all your internal organs. There is a difference between a living cell and life. None of those living cells in your body alone could be construed as a human being.

    The sperm and the egg do not equate to life until the moment of conception/fertilization, which is their sole purpose.

    You try again.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by amirsdaddy View Post
    So is your skin, your brain, all your internal organs. There is a difference between a living cell and life.
    The OP asks when life begins. Something living/alive has life.

    None of those living cells in your body alone could be construed as a human being.
    That wasn't the question and neither can a zygote be construed as a "human being" IMO.

    The sperm and the egg do not equate to life until the moment of conception/fertilization, which is their sole purpose.
    This is what is known as a "just so" statement. You can't defend your position by simply restating it.

    So far we appear in agreement that a thing can be composed of living
    cells with human DNA and not be a "human being" aka "person".
    Last edited by sinjin; 02-16-2011 at 05:42 PM.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

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    Quote Originally Posted by amirsdaddy View Post
    You try again.
    It's a fair response. What is human life is different than asking what makes a human being.

    We could probably keep a brainless body alive for some time, but it wouldn't be what people would generally think of as a human individual, a human being, a person.
    My opinions may have changed but not the fact that I am right

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    So an acorn becomes a tree the moment I stick it in the ground?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
    So an acorn becomes a tree the moment I stick it in the ground?
    The moment it begins to grow could it be called a young tree?
    My opinions may have changed but not the fact that I am right

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
    The moment it begins to grow could it be called a young tree?
    It is still 'life' even when only a bud on its parent tree!!!

    But is it an 'oaken life'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smiley View Post
    It is still 'life' even when only a bud on its parent tree!!!
    It's leaves are alive as well, but why would either be considered 'a life' separate from the parent tree?

    But is it an 'oaken life'?
    Is it a 'young oak'?
    My opinions may have changed but not the fact that I am right

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
    It's leaves are alive as well, but why would either be considered 'a life' separate from the parent tree?

    Is it a 'young oak'?
    Both good questions.

    And now over to amirsdaddy to avoid them completely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    The OP asks when life begins. Something living/alive has life.
    Let me explain it to you further. There are unicellular organisms and there are multicellular organisms. In a unicellular organism (a bacterial cell, e.g.) the living cell and the life of the bacteria are indistinguishable from one another. There is only one cell and is therefore both a 'living' cell and the life of a bacteria.

    Multicellular organisms are more complex, comprised of multiple cells (anywhere from a few to several trillion). Thus, the cell is considered living but is separate from the life of the organism. Because a multicellular organism is not dependant on one cell for it's life, rather the combination of all its cells, then the living cell and the life of the organism are distinguished from one another.

    A human sperm cell does not make a human life (even though it is a living cell) because a) it doesn't meet the scientific requirements of what is considered life and b) the sperm cell in and of itself, cannot reproduce into a living human being nor can it grow into a living human being. It's only when the sperm and the egg meet that allows this new cell to grow and develop into a human being that is capable of reproduction, hence at fertilization it has now met the requirements of the scientific/medical definition of "life".

    Because it is human (that being the only thing it possibly could be due to its unique DNA) makes it a human life.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    That wasn't the question and neither can a zygote be construed as a "human being" IMO.
    Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion... even at the blatant disregard for scientific fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    This is what is known as a "just so" statement. You can't defend your position by simply restating it.
    It was a reiteration of my statement/position which apparently went right by you. I presented the facts throughout the entire post. It's up to you whether you want to believe and accept it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    So far we appear in agreement that a thing can be composed of living cells with human DNA and not be a "human being" aka "person".
    Yes, we are in agreement at that. Just as I mentioned before, skin cells, brain cells... every cell in your body is living and contains your DNA. And only your DNA.

    It is only when the DNA from a male and a female combine that makes it a new separate and distinct life, person or human being... whichever you prefer. They're all the same to me. That combination of the DNA happens at fertilization (aka conception).

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