Poll: Our Jews White?

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Thread: Our Jews White?

  1. #31
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    30 million lives ...great leap forward ..Chinese

  2. #32
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    It still seems to have gone over Winston's head that Nato was making a statement about current social problems being unfairly blamed onto white people.
    Still why would he miss an opportunity to troll?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    It still seems to have gone over Winston's head that Nato was making a statement about current social problems being unfairly blamed onto white people.
    Still why would he miss an opportunity to troll?
    It's more a case that current social problems are blamed on the current societal structure, and one of the facets of this blame is that the current societal structure has a long and persistent hangover of racism, those at the bottom of the heap are disproportionately black, and those at the top are disproportionately white. Some racism persists but a lack of social mobility is the bigger issue, especially so when young black people don't see many people who look like them in positions of power, and hence have lower aspirations, which creates a vicious circle.
    “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist” - Helder Camara
    “It is not the will of God for some to have everything and others to have nothing. This cannot be God” - Oscar Romero
    "It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder" - Einstein
    "We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him" - CS Lewis

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Bennett View Post
    It's more a case that current social problems are blamed on the current societal structure, and one of the facets of this blame is that the current societal structure has a long and persistent hangover of racism, those at the bottom of the heap are disproportionately black, and those at the top are disproportionately white. Some racism persists but a lack of social mobility is the bigger issue, especially so when young black people don't see many people who look like them in positions of power, and hence have lower aspirations, which creates a vicious circle.
    That does not mean that the problems of ethnic groups ( including the behaviour of people included in those ethnic groups) should be seen as the fault of white people.
    No white person encourages black on black crime for instance.
    Also many white people experience the very same problems that people of other races experience.
    Some blame other ehnics groups for their plight ie BNP and when they do white people like you call them everything from racist to neo Nazis.
    However when black people blame whites for their plight you post the BS that we see in your post above ... deliberately missing the point.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    That does not mean that the problems of ethnic groups ( including the behaviour of people included in those ethnic groups) should be seen as the fault of white people.
    No white person encourages black on black crime for instance.
    No individual does (apart from the white consumers of the drug trade but that's beside the point).

    The societal problems are not the fault of the individuals in the society, it is collective responsibility. And it is not ethnicity that is the issue, it is wealth and power. Those in power have a responsibility, and the system they perpetuate does encourage crime, and for historical reasons it encourages crime more readily in some groups than others. Certainly the people committing the crime have a choice, and make the wrong one, but it doesn't make sense to say there are no external factors influencing them.

    As far as I can see, there are two possible explanations for higher crime rates in certain populations. One is that certain groups are genetically predisposed to criminal behaviour. There is no evidence for this. The second is that environmental factors make some people more likely to commit crimes than others. There is plenty of evidence for this. If there is a third explanation I'd like to hear it.
    “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist” - Helder Camara
    “It is not the will of God for some to have everything and others to have nothing. This cannot be God” - Oscar Romero
    "It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder" - Einstein
    "We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him" - CS Lewis

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Bennett View Post
    No individual does (apart from the white consumers of the drug trade but that's beside the point).

    The societal problems are not the fault of the individuals in the society, it is collective responsibility. And it is not ethnicity that is the issue, it is wealth and power. Those in power have a responsibility, and the system they perpetuate does encourage crime, and for historical reasons it encourages crime more readily in some groups than others. Certainly the people committing the crime have a choice, and make the wrong one, but it doesn't make sense to say there are no external factors influencing them.

    As far as I can see, there are two possible explanations for higher crime rates in certain populations. One is that certain groups are genetically predisposed to criminal behaviour. There is no evidence for this. The second is that environmental factors make some people more likely to commit crimes than others. There is plenty of evidence for this. If there is a third explanation I'd like to hear it.
    That was a fair and informed response Jo.

  7. #37
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    I fail to see what responsibility Jo's referring to. Is he suggesting that those of us who actually have something, have a responsibility to help everyone that have less than we do? While it sounds like a nice thing to do, I fail to see how it's anybody's responsibility to try and guarantee that those who aren't as well off as you, become as well off as possible.

    We don't have an obligation to eliminate poverty, or guarantee that everyone has a job and a home. It's impossible to achieve such a position. Even in the biggest welfare nations of the world there are still people who're dirt poor and have no homes. Germany, Japan, China, Britain, France, Canada, etc. poverty and homelessness is everywhere.

    You can have as diverse a political cabinet as you want, none of it is gonna make any difference. The plight of minorities can't be legislated away. And then there's the fact that the thug culture places an emphasis on committing unnecessary crimes. Cold blooded murder is encouraged. Dealing drugs is seen as a family business and tradition while getting a real job in an office isn't. Killing a police officer makes you an automatic celebrity to people in this culture. Instead of talk about stock market portfolios there's active discussion and comparison of the number of women you've raped.

    You'll have to excuse me if I don't feel like throwing more money at a problem that doesn't want to be fixed. You can't pay somebody to stop being a drug dealer or a gang banger.
    Last edited by NATO 556; 08-19-2010 at 01:37 PM.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    I fail to see what responsibility Jo's referring to. Is he suggesting that those of us who actually have something, have a responsibility to help everyone that have less than we do? While it sounds like a nice thing to do, I fail to see how it's anybody's responsibility to try and guarantee that those who aren't as well off as you, become as well off as possible.

    We don't have an obligation to eliminate poverty, or guarantee that everyone has a job and a home. It's impossible to achieve such a position. Even in the biggest welfare nations of the world there are still people who're dirt poor and have no homes. Germany, Japan, China, Britain, France, Canada, etc. poverty and homelessness is everywhere.

    You can have as diverse a political cabinet as you want, none of it is gonna make any difference. The plight of minorities can't be legislated away. And then there's the fact that the thug culture places an emphasis on committing unnecessary crimes. Cold blooded murder is encouraged. Dealing drugs is seen as a family business and tradition while getting a real job in an office isn't. Killing a police officer makes you an automatic celebrity to people in this culture. Instead of talk about stock market portfolios there's active discussion and comparison of the number of women you've raped.

    You'll have to excuse me if I don't feel like throwing more money at a problem that doesn't want to be fixed. You can't pay somebody to stop being a drug dealer or a gang banger.
    The problem is that if you do nothing about it you will have to accept a permanent underclass with all the problems that it brings.
    Throwing money at it is not the answer..we will always have poor and criminal sections of society but it needs resources try to minimise poverty and crime.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    The problem is that if you do nothing about it you will have to accept a permanent underclass with all the problems that it brings.
    Throwing money at it is not the answer..we will always have poor and criminal sections of society but it needs resources try to minimise poverty and crime.
    Another problem is that no matter what resources you devote to a problem, it won't do any good unless the targeted group actually wants to change and improve themselves. Otherwise it's just a wasted effort.

    And I really doubt anybody who's making $500 selling a single gram of cocaine is going to want to give up their business and get an official job. If they did then Mexico's drug cartel would be out of business.

    There's nothing wrong with making an effort. But one has to recognize a lost cause and learn when to cut their losses and try something else. And right now these race neutral approaches aren't working.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  10. #40
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    I think the Roma being expelled from France is a case in point.
    Roma( gypsies) have a high proportion of criminals amongst them in fact its a part of their lives.
    They show no respect for the law, move into an area and leave their filth behind them after their mini crime wave.
    The French government have had enough a threw a load of them out but the French left wing( who else) call Sarcozy racist and think that they should be allowed to stay in France.
    Which means the French left wing believe that the ordinary citizens of France should have to put up with these people and support them too.
    Gypsies in the UK buy farm land and build whole communities on it without planning permission.
    They have illegally tapped into water , sewages and electricity and threatened the local people.
    When the councils try to reject them they cry racism first then become violent.
    It has to be seen to be believed what damage these people do when they temporarily move into an area with a few caravans..what it must be like to live near them must be unimaginable.
    I worked near an official gypsy camp and I can vouch that they are scumbags.....but that means I must be racist

  11. #41
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    The fact that you generalise from one small group to an entire ethnic group is the racist part. Roma have a real problem because their lifestyle is totally at odds with the expectations of the society around them. Nomadic lifestyles and primarily outdoor living are not common in most of Europe. The lack of provision for Roma culture fuels a lack of respect from some Roma for settled culture, including at times the laws imposed by that culture. Roma aren't offered a way to live their life in compliance with the law, except to reject their culture entirely (the situation is not wholly dissimilar to that of Native Americans at the end of the 19th century). Is it any wonder that some of them ignore other laws than the ones about where they can stop?
    “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist” - Helder Camara
    “It is not the will of God for some to have everything and others to have nothing. This cannot be God” - Oscar Romero
    "It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder" - Einstein
    "We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him" - CS Lewis

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Bennett View Post
    The fact that you generalise from one small group to an entire ethnic group is the racist part. Roma have a real problem because their lifestyle is totally at odds with the expectations of the society around them. Nomadic lifestyles and primarily outdoor living are not common in most of Europe. The lack of provision for Roma culture fuels a lack of respect from some Roma for settled culture, including at times the laws imposed by that culture. Roma aren't offered a way to live their life in compliance with the law, except to reject their culture entirely (the situation is not wholly dissimilar to that of Native Americans at the end of the 19th century). Is it any wonder that some of them ignore other laws than the ones about where they can stop?
    Their culture is begging, prostitution and opportunistic robbery.
    I should not obliged to accept that culture.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Bennett View Post
    Roma have a real problem because their lifestyle is totally at odds with the expectations of the society around them.
    Well that's too bad. Society makes the rules, not those with a specific lifestyle. Practicing muslims don't get to come to the US and then cry racism when they get arrested for practicing the beating and mutilating of their wives. You have to adapt to the demands of society, rather than screaming at the top of your lungs that your group should receive preferential treatment that would allow you to live however you want, regardless of the mess that results.

    Thug cultures shouldn't be tolerated. When your culture sees murdering cops as a badge of honor, selling cocaine as a legitimate business, and abandoning your own children as an acceptable life decision, that culture shouldn't get to set the rules, and demand to be treated specially.

    Explain why exactly we should feel any obligation to show any degree of tolerance to a culture that embraces criminal behavior and sees it as an acceptable lifestyle.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    Well that's too bad. Society makes the rules, not those with a specific lifestyle. Practicing muslims don't get to come to the US and then cry racism when they get arrested for practicing the beating and mutilating of their wives. You have to adapt to the demands of society, rather than screaming at the top of your lungs that your group should receive preferential treatment that would allow you to live however you want, regardless of the mess that results.

    Thug cultures shouldn't be tolerated. When your culture sees murdering cops as a badge of honor, selling cocaine as a legitimate business, and abandoning your own children as an acceptable life decision, that culture shouldn't get to set the rules, and demand to be treated specially.
    Jo has convinced himself that other cultures, even if they include practices that are illegal in the UK should be accepted by UK citizens because that is what they are used to.
    The same people that were Stalin's 'useful XXXXXX' are now just XXXXXX.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gansao View Post
    Their culture is begging, prostitution and opportunistic robbery.
    I should not obliged to accept that culture.
    No it isn't. It has traditionally been following the harvesting of crops through the country, and stopping on common land and in empty fields while doing it, then finding a long term pitch for the winter. Others have been part of the travelling shows, though this is still viable for some, my Dad was chaplain to the travelling showmen for a while. I'm not suggesting for a moment that theft or prostitution should be condoned among Roma any more than any other community, but it is not unreasonable to accommodate places to stop for the night with some basic facilities, and pitches for overwintering.
    “When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist” - Helder Camara
    “It is not the will of God for some to have everything and others to have nothing. This cannot be God” - Oscar Romero
    "It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder" - Einstein
    "We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him" - CS Lewis

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