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Thread: The U.S. Doesn't Win Wars Anymore...

  1. #1
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    The U.S. Doesn't Win Wars Anymore...

    We just funnel the stressed and underpaid troops in and out of the combat zones, while all the while showering taxpayer billions on the contractors and giant corporations that view the horrors of war as a heaven-sent bonanza. BP, as we’ve been told repeatedly recently, is one of the largest suppliers of fuel to the wartime U.S. military.
    Op-Ed Columnist - The Courage to Leave Afghanistan - NYTimes.com

    But that's the Bush/Cheney way to do wars and we're stuck with that program for a while.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  2. #2
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    The cannon fodder of the US military is poor people who have to risk their lives and many lose them in order to make a living. They are uneducated, ill trained, ill equipped and demoralized.
    The upper middle class and the rich don’t care about them. The media for all practical means doesn’t report on the arrival of the caskets bringing the dead and even less the wounded.

  3. #3
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    What was the last war Australia ever won?
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Successful genocide against the Aboriginal people of Tasmania.
    He or she who supports a State organized in a military way – whether directly or indirectly – participates in sin. Each man takes part in the sin by contributing to the maintenance of the State by paying taxes.

    ~ Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    What was the last war Australia ever won?
    The war against guns

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    The war against guns
    People are still being shot to death in Australia. Looks like you didn't win that war afterall. If you had then you wouldn't need to pass new laws that require imitation guns to be registered and locked up like the real things.

    Try again.

    If your feds can conduct a year long sting investigation into a black market arms source, then you haven't won anything.
    Last edited by NATO 556; 06-14-2010 at 05:39 PM.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symbiote View Post
    Successful genocide against the Aboriginal people of Tasmania.
    That was more like a slaughter.
    If one desires to know what the weasel was doing in the hen house, don't ask the weasel, ask the hens.

    "It's not that politicians don't learn anything, they learn what they can get away with, and then blame everyone else when they get caught." Thomas Sowell

  8. #8
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    What was the last war Australia ever won?
    Winston's Chilean, not Australian. And Chile is certainly no bastion of freedom.

  9. #9
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    It certainly wasn't under Pinochet, that's for sure.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    Chile is certainly no bastion of freedom.
    If you say it, then it has to be wrong

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    People are still being shot to death in Australia. Looks like you didn't win that war afterall. If you had then you wouldn't need to pass new laws that require imitation guns to be registered and locked up like the real things.

    Try again.

    If your feds can conduct a year long sting investigation into a black market arms source, then you haven't won anything.
    shot to death? Impossible, for guns don't kill

  12. #12
    mata is offline stating the obvious- Bye!
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    Op-Ed Columnist - The Courage to Leave Afghanistan - NYTimes.com

    But that's the Bush/Cheney way to do wars and we're stuck with that program for a while.
    Why does it seem we are (forever & still) stuck?

    I think at least part of the answer is here, from the last paragraph of that article:

    Ultimately, the public is at fault for this catastrophe in Afghanistan, where more than 1,000 G.I.’s have now lost their lives. If we don’t have the courage as a people to fight and share in the sacrifices when our nation is at war, if we’re unwilling to seriously think about the war and hold our leaders accountable for the way it is conducted, if we’re not even willing to pay for it, then we should at least have the courage to pull our valiant forces out of it.
    The people (you & I & every other American) are responsible.

    In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
    The people protested the Vietnam War. Now? We’ve been conned into believing any kindof anti-war protest is ‘unpatriotic.’

    The American people have become ‘comfortably numb.’ We’re kept docile with prescription drugs & kept mind numbed with rhetoric which equates any sortof protest against militarism or corporatism as being ‘unpatriotic’ or worse.

    Not only are the American people at home kept tame - we're medicating our warriors:

    America's Medicated Army
    By Mark Thompson Thursday, Jun. 05, 2008

    Seven months after Sergeant Christopher LeJeune started scouting Baghdad's dangerous roads — acting as bait to lure insurgents into the open so his Army unit could kill them — he found himself growing increasingly despondent. "We'd been doing some heavy missions, and things were starting to bother me," LeJeune says. His unit had been protecting Iraqi police stations targeted by rocket-propelled grenades, hunting down mortars hidden in dark Baghdad basements and cleaning up its own messes. He recalls the order his unit got after a nighttime firefight to roll back out and collect the enemy dead. When LeJeune and his buddies arrived, they discovered that some of the bodies were still alive. "You don't always know who the bad guys are," he says. "When you search someone's house, you have it built up in your mind that these guys are terrorists, but when you go in, there's little bitty tiny shoes and toys on the floor — things like that started affecting me a lot more than I thought they would."

    For the first time in history, a sizable and growing number of U.S. combat troops are taking daily doses of antidepressants to calm nerves strained by repeated and lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. The medicines are intended not only to help troops keep their cool but also to enable the already strapped Army to preserve its most precious resource: soldiers on the front lines. Data contained in the Army's fifth Mental Health Advisory Team report indicate that, according to an anonymous survey of U.S. troops taken last fall, about 12% of combat troops in Iraq and 17% of those in Afghanistan are taking prescription antidepressants or sleeping pills to help them cope. Escalating violence in Afghanistan and the more isolated mission have driven troops to rely more on medication there than in Iraq, military officials say.

    …The increase in the use of medication among U.S. troops suggests the heavy mental and psychological price being paid by soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    …At least 115 soldiers killed themselves last year, including 36 in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army said on May 29. That's the highest toll since it started keeping such records in 1980. Nearly 40% of Army suicide victims in 2006 and 2007 took psychotropic drugs — overwhelmingly, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) like Prozac and Zoloft. While the Army cites failed relationships as the primary cause, some outside experts sense a link between suicides and prescription-drug use — though there is also no way of knowing how many suicide attempts the antidepressants may have prevented by improving a soldier's spirits. "The high percentage of U.S. soldiers attempting suicide after taking SSRIs should raise serious concerns," says Dr. Joseph Glenmullen, who teaches psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. "And there's no question they're using them to prop people up in difficult circumstances."

    …The trickle of new drugs became a flood after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Details of America's medicated wars come from the mental-health surveys the Army has conducted each year since the war began. If the surveys are right, many U.S. soldiers experience a common but haunting mismatch in combat life: while nearly two-thirds of the soldiers surveyed in Iraq in 2006 knew someone who had been killed or wounded, fewer than 15% knew for certain that they had actually killed a member of the enemy in return. That imbalance between seeing the price of war up close and yet not feeling able to do much about it, the survey suggests, contributes to feelings of "intense fear, helplessness or horror" that plant the seeds of mental distress. "A friend was liquefied in the driver's position on a tank, and I saw everything," was a typical comment. Another: "A huge f______ bomb blew my friend's head off like 50 meters from me." Such indelible scenes — and wondering when and where the next one will happen — are driving thousands of soldiers to take antidepressants, military psychiatrists say. It's not hard to imagine why.

    … And just as more troops are taking these drugs, there are new doubts about the drugs' effectiveness. A pair of recent reports from Rand and the federal Institute of Medicine (iom) raise doubts about just how much the new medicines can do to alleviate PTSD. The Rand study, released in April, says the "overall effects for SSRIs, even in the largest clinical trials, are modest." Last October the iom concluded, "The evidence is inadequate to determine the efficacy of SSRIs in the treatment of PTSD."

    Chris LeJeune could have told them that. When he returned home in May 2004, he remained on clonazepam and other drugs. He became one of 300,000 Americans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and suffer from PTSD or depression. "But PTSD isn't fixed by taking pills — it's just numbed," he claims now. "And I felt like I was drugged all the time." So a year ago, he simply stopped taking them. "I just started trying to fight my demons myself," he says, with help from VA counseling. He laughs when asked how he's doing. "I'd like to think," he says, "that I'm really damn close back to normal."
    I don't think the solution lies in finding more effective drugs.

    The American people need to WAKE UP!
    Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
    Rascality has limits. Stupidity has not.
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  13. #13
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    The war in Afghanistan is now being fought by the politicians again, putting the troops in harms way by instructing Central Command to hold back support if the smallest chance of collateral damage is possible. Central Command is where those directing the operation sit back smugly and move the troops and equipment across a board much like the allies did in the war rooms of past wars,they just do it on computers now.

    The other thing is that we don't learn from the past, or we (at least the politicians)think we can beat it, Russia got sent home with their tails tucked between their legs, ultimately the same is going to happen to us...........you cannot beat these people at their own game, attrition does not help as there are plenty of fanatics coming over the borders to replace those taken out.....

    That's why all these deaths and future deaths are in VAIN....
    If one desires to know what the weasel was doing in the hen house, don't ask the weasel, ask the hens.

    "It's not that politicians don't learn anything, they learn what they can get away with, and then blame everyone else when they get caught." Thomas Sowell

  14. #14
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    Thank you, Mata, some true disclosures.

    Unfortunately, our elected representatives refuse to represent us. Their chosen constituency is the perpetual war machine.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  15. #15
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    But that's the Bush/Cheney way to do wars and we're stuck with that program for a while.

    Brutus: actually we don't win wars anymore because we don't bomb them into submission anymore. This is to our great credit although one day we may have to really fight a war again but be too squemish to do it.

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