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Thread: How easy would it be for an armed person to stop a school shooting?

  1. #1
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    How easy would it be for an armed person to stop a school shooting?

    YouTube - Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part Two

    In the first experiment, Jason takes a hit to the chest before he is able to shoot the intruder. Afterwards, he says his training at the range in which he fired at stationary targets did not prepare him to deal with a moving target which could fire back at him. Also, because of tunnel vision Jason thought the armed person at his side was trying to help him. In reality, the person was firing at other students. An inability to distinguish between friend and foe could prove fatal, especially if more than one student in the class regularly carries a handgun.

    In the second experiment, Ashley fires five shots but only one hits the intruder and it only grazes the intruder's arm. Ashley, on the other hand, takes six shots to the center of her body. Because of students running in all directions, Ashley almost shoots one of her classmates. Afterwards, Ashley says she didn't even think to worry about students running in front of her.
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Oh God...you didn't...

    Yes you did! You decided to use this heavily biased news byte as proof that students can't do the concealed carry thing?

    I always knew you were never interested in the truth, now you've really proven it to everybody.

    Did you notice how the students selected to be the "concealed carry" individual were required to wear cumbersome helmets and gloves? The helmets greatly restricted their vision, and the gloves were bulky and made manual dexterity a challenge.

    And then there's the fact that the "shooters" were fully trained and experienced police officers, not the average high school or college punk you'd be likely to run into.

    There's also the fact that only one student was selected to be armed for this farce, and placed in a specific situation. There was absolutely no attempt at allowing multiple students to be armed so they could attack the shooter from the rear and shoot them in the back.

    You must be desperate to the point of suicide if you're using this piece of trash as grounds for your argument.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    YouTube - Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part Two

    In the first experiment, Jason takes a hit to the chest before he is able to shoot the intruder. Afterwards, he says his training at the range in which he fired at stationary targets did not prepare him to deal with a moving target which could fire back at him. Also, because of tunnel vision Jason thought the armed person at his side was trying to help him. In reality, the person was firing at other students. An inability to distinguish between friend and foe could prove fatal, especially if more than one student in the class regularly carries a handgun.

    In the second experiment, Ashley fires five shots but only one hits the intruder and it only grazes the intruder's arm. Ashley, on the other hand, takes six shots to the center of her body. Because of students running in all directions, Ashley almost shoots one of her classmates. Afterwards, Ashley says she didn't even think to worry about students running in front of her.
    Better they have no chance of defending themselves at all, right?
    "They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years, and [heck], we're not using it anymore."
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    Oh God...you didn't...

    Yes you did! You decided to use this heavily biased news byte as proof that students can't do the concealed carry thing?

    I always knew you were never interested in the truth, now you've really proven it to everybody.

    Did you notice how the students selected to be the "concealed carry" individual were required to wear cumbersome helmets and gloves? The helmets greatly restricted their vision, and the gloves were bulky and made manual dexterity a challenge.
    I just came across the video the other day. If helmets and gloves interfered with the defenders' shooting ability then you have to wonder why the attackers did so well with helmets and gloves on. I've worn a helmet plenty of times on a motorcycle and never noticed it interfering with my vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    And then there's the fact that the "shooters" were fully trained and experienced police officers, not the average high school or college punk you'd be likely to run into.
    So the reason the defenders performed so poorly against the attackers was because the attackers were trained police officers in real life? So are you admitting that police officers are much more qualified and skilled with a gun in a shootout than the typical gun owner? If you were really interested in stopping school shootings the least you could do is advocate that concealed handgun permit holders get better and more relevant training. The fact that the defenders did not even try to take cover shows how unprepared they were to deal with a moving target that could fire back at them. One of the first things you learn when playing laser tag is to take cover. It greatly reduces the chances of being shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    There's also the fact that only one student was selected to be armed for this farce, and placed in a specific situation. There was absolutely no attempt at allowing multiple students to be armed so they could attack the shooter from the rear and shoot them in the back.

    You must be desperate to the point of suicide if you're using this piece of trash as grounds for your argument.
    So your complaint is that there was only one armed defender in each situation? Wouldn't that be more realistic? Only a small percentage of the US population has a license to carry a concealed handgun so the chances of having more than one armed student in a classroom at the same time are small. Even if there was another armed defender in the classroom that wouldn't necessarily make the situation better. The two armed defenders might only have a split second to decide if they were on the same side. One error in judgement by either of the defenders could prove fatal and make the situation worse.
    Last edited by Galileo; 05-05-2010 at 05:20 PM.
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooterandproud View Post
    Better they have no chance of defending themselves at all, right?
    Let's think about this one....
    Notice in the video that the people who ended up getting shot the most were the people trying to defend themselves with a gun not the people running away. That lends credence to the theory that armed people are much more likely to be shot in an assault.
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    I just came across the video the other day. If helmets and gloves interfered with the defenders' shooting ability then you have to wonder why the attackers did so well with helmets and gloves on. I've worn a helmet plenty of times on a motorcycle and never noticed it interfering with my vision.
    And a supporter of DC's gun laws claimed he could disable his gun lock in under three seconds. However what he claims and what you claim are irrelevant to the facts.

    Performance of the defenders was greatly hampered by the existence of the gloves and the helmet. Had they not been required for this farce then results could have been much different.

    So the reason the defenders performed so poorly against the attackers was because the attackers were trained police officers in real life?
    How many people do you know can go toe-to-toe with somebody trained in SWAT-like tactics and brag about beating them? These guys are like military in comparison to everybody else. They're trained in tactics for dealing with hot zones and approaching hostile individuals.

    Let's see the average school shooter be in possession of this type of training and know exactly where the hard target is in every single classroom.

    So are you admitting that police officers are much more qualified and skilled with a gun in a shootout than the typical gun owner?
    Not even close you anti-gun mouthpiece. I'm saying the results were tainted because the deck was purposely stacked in favor of the killers.

    Everything presented basically amounts to you saying "No matter what you do, you and everyone else is going to die, resistance is futile."

    If you were really interested in stopping school shootings the least you could do is advocate that concealed handgun permit holders get better and more relevant training.
    Police training isn't necessary, nor should it be made necessary.

    The fact that the defenders did not even try to take cover shows how unprepared they were to deal with a moving target that could fire back at them. One of the first things you learn when playing laser tag is to take cover. It greatly reduces the chances of being shot.
    This is irrelevant to the argument. There are going to be times when cover is impossible and you have to remain where you stand and hope for the best. Everyone knows that.

    So your complaint is that there was only one armed defender in each situation? Wouldn't that be more realistic? Only a small percentage of the US population has a license to carry a concealed handgun so the chances of having more than one armed student in a classroom at the same time are small.
    And how would the killer have any way of knowing the exact student to kill first to ensure there would be no shooting back? Explain that.

    Even if there was another armed defender in the classroom that wouldn't necessarily make the situation better. The two armed defenders might only have a split second to decide if they were on the same side. One error in judgement by either of the defenders could prove fatal and make the situation worse.
    You don't get it. Concealed carry doesn't have to necessarily make the situation better, it just has to supply the option that could potentially lead to a dead bad guy. There doesn't have to be a guaranteed chance of victory.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Let's think about this one....
    We think. You don't.

    Notice in the video that the people who ended up getting shot the most were the people trying to defend themselves with a gun not the people running away. That lends credence to the theory that armed people are much more likely to be shot in an assault.
    And I once saw a video of a knife so sharp it could cut through a tree stump like it was a chainsaw.

    Weren't you the one who kept saying "Just because you claim it's the truth doesn't mean that it is"?

    The video you supplied isn't real, it has no basis in reality. It's biased, it's a scam, it's the stuff of Hollywood dumb f***s who think you can shoot down an airplane in mid-flight with a single rifle shot.

    Take a look at Columbine and Virginia Tech. Those who were more likely to be shot were those that tried to hide and did nothing. They just sat there and allowed themselves to be killed like stupid sheep.

    Now instead of trying to claim how bad an idea concealed carry in school is, how about you come up with what you feel is a better idea to prevent school shootings.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    So the reason the defenders performed so poorly against the attackers was because the attackers were trained police officers in real life? So are you admitting that police officers are much more qualified and skilled with a gun in a shootout than the typical gun owner?
    Please give us a list of school shootings in which the shooter going on the rampage was a well-trained police officer.

    I cannot think of a one.

    For this to have been remotely close to anything in reality if they had wanted to maintain credibility for their "study", the shooter would have been a kid just like the defenders. Same general age, same general training.

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    Well it only takes one bullet to stop a school shooting.

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    Well anyways about the video. In the first part of the video Jason manages to kill the intruder even though he is shot himself. He stopped the shooter before he could kill even more people even if he did get shot himself. So he did save lives. But he didnt see the other person because of his goggles. Plus its unrealistic to say that there would be another shooter already in the room. In fact that hasnt happened yet in real life as far as I know.

    And as for Ashley. She didnt seem like she actually knew what she was doing with the gun. When they showed her shooting at the stationary targets she took forever to aim and shoot at the target. She isnt the type of person who is going to be carrying a weapon. And as for her almost shooting one of the students. The student ran towards the shooter. Do you think that would happen in real life? Probably not. Most people would be in shock and the ones who arnt would duck for cover or run away from the shooter.

    Really though the main situation a concealed carry permits would help in isnt like the situation that is in the study. It is for when there has already been shots fired and they now know there is a shooter in the building. If a person with a gun hears gunshots next door he will run into the room and take out the shooter or the more likely situation where the person with the gun is trying to escape and runs into the shooter and kills him.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    Oh God...you didn't...

    Yes you did! You decided to use this heavily biased news byte as proof that students can't do the concealed carry thing?

    I always knew you were never interested in the truth, now you've really proven it to everybody.

    Did you notice how the students selected to be the "concealed carry" individual were required to wear cumbersome helmets and gloves? The helmets greatly restricted their vision, and the gloves were bulky and made manual dexterity a challenge.

    And then there's the fact that the "shooters" were fully trained and experienced police officers, not the average high school or college punk you'd be likely to run into.

    There's also the fact that only one student was selected to be armed for this farce, and placed in a specific situation. There was absolutely no attempt at allowing multiple students to be armed so they could attack the shooter from the rear and shoot them in the back.

    You must be desperate to the point of suicide if you're using this piece of trash as grounds for your argument.
    O man you saw that to,almost took the words out of my mouth.But he's an anti and they believe anything.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Let's think about this one....
    Notice in the video that the people who ended up getting shot the most were the people trying to defend themselves with a gun not the people running away. That lends credence to the theory that armed people are much more likely to be shot in an assault.
    Well yeah because the shooters knew where they were before they came in the room.And of course a police officer is going to do better against someone with
    very little to no training at all in handling firearms.Bet if they did the same "test"
    with NATO,me or a host of others the results would be different,but that wouldn't be fair because it wouldn't further their anti gun agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Addison48 View Post
    Well anyways about the video. In the first part of the video Jason manages to kill the intruder even though he is shot himself.
    Assuming that in a real life situation you could kill an attacker after being shot in the chest...
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Assuming that in a real life situation you could kill an attacker after being shot in the chest...
    It'd sure be alot easier than trying to fistfight your opponent after being shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Assuming that in a real life situation you could kill an attacker after being shot in the chest...
    That's really interesting. It sounds like now even you're casting doubt on the accuracy of the video you presented.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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