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Thread: Gringo Guns

  1. #1
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    Gringo Guns

    Some people have complained about Mexican drug cartels causing problems in the US, but what about the problems Americans cause in Mexico by helping to arm these drug cartels?
    YouTube - YouTube- Gringo Guns.mp4
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Court’s overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Merchant of Death

    The US is the top arms seller in the world and expanding its lead.
    So if your neighbour is the US why look farther for your tools of trade?

    The violence of course can not contained south of the border. The USA is becoming more and more like a Latin American country (Chile and Argentina are the exceptions) violent, poor, corrrupt and the gap between rich and poor ever widening.

    See below:

    Just as government officials had feared, the drug violence raging in Mexico is spilling over into the United States.

    U.S. authorities are reporting a spike in killings, kidnappings and home invasions connected to Mexico's murderous cartels. And to some policymakers' surprise, much of the violence is happening not in towns along the border, where it was assumed the bloodshed would spread, but a considerable distance away, in places such as Phoenix and Atlanta.

    Investigators fear the violence could erupt elsewhere around the country because the Mexican cartels are believed to have set up drug-dealing operations all over the U.S., in such far-flung places as Anchorage, Alaska; Boston; and Sioux Falls, S.D.

    "The violence follows the drugs," said David Cuthbertson, agent in charge of the FBI's office in the border city of El Paso, Texas.

    The violence takes many forms: Drug customers who owe money are kidnapped until they pay up. Cartel employees who don't deliver the goods or turn over the profits are disciplined through beatings, kidnappings or worse. And drug smugglers kidnap illegal immigrants in clashes with human smugglers over the use of secret routes from Mexico.

    So far, the violence is nowhere near as grisly as the mayhem in Mexico, which has witnessed beheadings, assassinations of police officers and soldiers, and mass killings in which the bodies were arranged to send a message. But law enforcement officials worry the violence on this side could escalate.

    "They are capable of doing about anything," said Rusty Payne, a Drug Enforcement Administration spokesman in Washington. "When you are willing to chop heads off, put them in an ice chest and drop them off at a police precinct, or roll a head into a disco, put beheadings on YouTube as a warning," very little is off limits.

    In an apartment near Birmingham, Ala., police found five men with their throats slit in August. They had apparently been tortured with electric shocks before being killed in a murder-for-hire orchestrated by a Mexican drug organization over a drug debt of about $400,000.


    Mexican Drug Violence Spills Over Into US

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    We don't ask Mexico to do a thing in response to our criminals. We handle them ourselves. All we do is ask them to extradite those that try and cross the border, and send them back over here so we can prosecute them.

    So why exactly should Mexico have any expectation of our nation changing our laws so we can deal with their criminals for them?

    Besides this point, neither of you have come up with a suggestion for how to deal with the arms that came in from Colombia, Africa, China, Vietnam, South Korea, Russia, or any of these other locations.

    Do you really think the drug cartel got anti-aircraft cannons and grenades from America?
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    We don't ask Mexico to do a thing in response to our criminals. We handle them ourselves. All we do is ask them to extradite those that try and cross the border, and send them back over here so we can prosecute them.

    So why exactly should Mexico have any expectation of our nation changing our laws so we can deal with their criminals for them?

    Besides this point, neither of you have come up with a suggestion for how to deal with the arms that came in from Colombia, Africa, China, Vietnam, South Korea, Russia, or any of these other locations.

    Do you really think the drug cartel got anti-aircraft cannons and grenades from America?
    Military grade weaponry makes up only a small fraction of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities. In some cases, drug cartels have modified semiautomatic weapons legally sold in the US to become machine guns or to fire .50 caliber rounds. Most of the guns that have been traced were originally sold by US gun dealers near the Mexican border. Why would you go to all the trouble to get a gun in some nation across the ocean if you could get it from the nation that borders you on the north?
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Court’s overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Military grade weaponry makes up only a small fraction of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities.
    So you fully admit that the drug cartel has genuine military weaponry at their disposal, and you're not raising hell over that fact because it's supposedly a small fraction? You're not upset because you claim it's just a small amount?

    That's odd because crimes committed by people with concealed carry permits are exceedingly rare and almost nonexistent when compared to those who commit no crime, but you still consider it a major problem that has to be addressed.

    And I don't consider 100,000 military issue M16s, stolen by military deserters, to be small. That's nearly four times the number that Mexico claims to have confiscated.

    In some cases, drug cartels have modified semiautomatic weapons legally sold in the US to become machine guns
    Do you have any actual proof you can supply to back up your point? Or are you just making up this stuff as you go along?

    or to fire .50 caliber rounds.
    Now I know you're lying. There's no way something like an AK-47 can be modified to fire a .50 BMG round. It's an absolute physical impossibility.

    Most of the guns that have been traced were originally sold by US gun dealers near the Mexican border.
    More lies and half truths again. Mexico only turned over a tiny portion of the weapons they claimed to confiscate, don't you dare deny it. They only turned over about 5,000 of nearly 30,000. Most of that 5,000 could be traced, but what about the other 25,000 they held back? Why didn't they ship absolutely every last confiscated gun to have traced and tested?

    And what happened to the claim that Mexico was confiscating 2,000 contraband guns per day?

    Why would you go to all the trouble to get a gun in some nation across the ocean if you could get it from the nation that borders you on the north?
    For the most part they aren't getting their weapons here. We aren't selling the stuff that they want or need. A few isolated incidents don't mean anything, all you're doing is cherry picking.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Military grade weaponry makes up only a small fraction of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities. In some cases, drug cartels have modified semiautomatic weapons legally sold in the US to become machine guns or to fire .50 caliber rounds. Most of the guns that have been traced were originally sold by US gun dealers near the Mexican border. Why would you go to all the trouble to get a gun in some nation across the ocean if you could get it from the nation that borders you on the north?
    Why buy semiautos in the U.S. for hundreds of dollars(each)when they can buy
    from some of their neighbors full autos for peanuts?M-16s A.K.47's.
    Lots of U.S. and Soviet weapons to be had.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    So you fully admit that the drug cartel has genuine military weaponry at their disposal, and you're not raising hell over that fact because it's supposedly a small fraction? You're not upset because you claim it's just a small amount?

    That's odd because crimes committed by people with concealed carry permits are exceedingly rare and almost nonexistent when compared to those who commit no crime, but you still consider it a major problem that has to be addressed.

    And I don't consider 100,000 military issue M16s, stolen by military deserters, to be small. That's nearly four times the number that Mexico claims to have confiscated.
    I have no influence in the matter of drug cartels stealing weapons from the Mexican military. Expecting me to raise hell about the matter would be like me expecting you to raise more hell about gun control in North Korea than gun control in the US. You compare crime committed by concealed carry holders in the US to crime committed by Mexican drug cartels. It's an irrelevant comparison. You're like the people who point out that Mexico treats immigrants from South and Central American like cr*p as some kind of justification for Arizona's treatment of immigrants. It's irrelevant. The US is not justified in stooping to Mexico's level and violating the Constitution no matter how often Mexico abuses the human rights of its immigrants.

    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    Do you have any actual proof you can supply to back up your point? Or are you just making up this stuff as you go along?
    Now I know you're lying. There's no way something like an AK-47 can be modified to fire a .50 BMG round. It's an absolute physical impossibility.
    As I remember, the article I read said that AR15s were being modded to fire .50 caliber rounds. Anyway, how would you know? Do you have a lot of experience modding guns?


    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    More lies and half truths again. Mexico only turned over a tiny portion of the weapons they claimed to confiscate, don't you dare deny it. They only turned over about 5,000 of nearly 30,000. Most of that 5,000 could be traced, but what about the other 25,000 they held back? Why didn't they ship absolutely every last confiscated gun to have traced and tested?

    And what happened to the claim that Mexico was confiscating 2,000 contraband guns per day?
    Any evidence to support these claims?


    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    For the most part they aren't getting their weapons here. We aren't selling the stuff that they want or need. A few isolated incidents don't mean anything, all you're doing is cherry picking.
    Only a few isolated incidents of Mexican drug cartels obtaining guns from US gun dealers? You haven't come close to proving such a claim. You haven't even shown evidence of even one gun being obtained from a place like China or Russia nor explained why drug cartels would go to all the trouble to get a gun in some nation across the ocean if they could get it from the nation that borders them on the north.
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Court’s overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    I have no influence in the matter of drug cartels stealing weapons from the Mexican military.
    Stolen by army deserters.

    You compare crime committed by concealed carry holders in the US to crime committed by Mexican drug cartels. It's an irrelevant comparison. You're like the people who point out that Mexico treats immigrants from South and Central American like cr*p as some kind of justification for Arizona's treatment of immigrants. It's irrelevant. The US is not justified in stooping to Mexico's level and violating the Constitution no matter how often Mexico abuses the human rights of its immigrants.
    You talk about irrelevance, and bring up the discussion of another thread in an entirely different section of the board to try and prove your point?

    As I remember, the article I read said that AR15s were being modded to fire .50 caliber rounds. Anyway, how would you know? Do you have a lot of experience modding guns?
    The .223/5.56 round the AR-15 and M16 is chambered for is 57.40 mm long from tip to base. The .50 BMG is 138 mm in length. It's physically impossible for any AR-15 to be chambered for such a long round. The article you read is wrong.

    Any evidence to support these claims?
    FactCheck.org: Counting Mexico's Guns

    FOXNews.com - The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

    Only a few isolated incidents of Mexican drug cartels obtaining guns from US gun dealers? You haven't come close to proving such a claim. You haven't even shown evidence of even one gun being obtained from a place like China or Russia
    Drug cartels' new weaponry means war - Los Angeles Times

    "The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

    Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California."


    F***ing antitank rockets!

    Just try and claim that the drug cartel is acquiring antitank rockets from America.

    nor explained why drug cartels would go to all the trouble to get a gun in some nation across the ocean if they could get it from the nation that borders them on the north.
    Because in America you can't get grenade launchers, or missiles, or anything like that.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Galileo;400735
    As I remember, the article I read said that AR15s were being modded to fire .50 caliber rounds. Anyway, how would you know? Do you have a lot of experience modding guns?
    Have you ever seen a .50 round?I somehow don't think so.Modify an AR15 to fire some thing like that? not gonna happen and it don't take no experience to know that if you want to be technical.That would be like modifying a .22 revolver to
    fire a .44 magnum.

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    Couple things.

    First, the statement that most of the guns they were able to trace came from the US may be true but it is also HIGHLY misleading. Most guns they were not able to trace at all. It is not surprising that most of the relatively few that they WERE able to trace did come from the US since the US is one of the few countries in this hemisphere where a weapon CAN actually be traced to some degree.

    Second, it is easy to convert an AR-15 to .50. You replace the upper. There are several manufacturers who sell kits. They take about 5 minutes to install.
    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. —Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by daewoo View Post
    Couple things.

    First, the statement that most of the guns they were able to trace came from the US may be true but it is also HIGHLY misleading. Most guns they were not able to trace at all. It is not surprising that most of the relatively few that they WERE able to trace did come from the US since the US is one of the few countries in this hemisphere where a weapon CAN actually be traced to some degree.

    Second, it is easy to convert an AR-15 to .50. You replace the upper. There are several manufacturers who sell kits. They take about 5 minutes to install.
    Maybe if your shooting .50 Beowulf 12.7 x 42 mm (Desert Eagle),personally I would not trust it because I don't like explosions in my face,but I think what
    people have in mind when they think .50,is Browning machine gun (BMG)
    12.7 X 99mm .Or as NATO put it 138mm (overall)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsu2357 View Post
    Maybe if your shooting .50 Beowulf 12.7 x 42 mm (Desert Eagle),personally I would not trust it because I don't like explosions in my face,but I think what
    people have in mind when they think .50,is Browning machine gun (BMG)
    12.7 X 99mm .Or as NATO put it 138mm (overall)
    I am well aware of what the .50 BMG is. There are several uppers for the AR-15 available for it. The ALS .50 upper is one of the most common .50 rifles you see at any decent sized competition. The other one you see frequently is the tactilite series from Zel Custom. There are dozens of different manufacturers that make .50BMG uppers.

    Also, the desert eagle was chambered in .50 AE (action express) not .50 Beowulf.
    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. —Samuel Adams

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    Not really a smart thing though. You take a rifle that can use 20 and 30 round magazines...and you take off the upper assembly and put on one that renders it as a single shot weapon?

    Does anybody know if that new upper damages the lower receiver overtime? Being made of aluminum I don't think it could properly handle .50 BMG recoil and might get warped.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    Not really a smart thing though. You take a rifle that can use 20 and 30 round magazines...and you take off the upper assembly and put on one that renders it as a single shot weapon?
    That kind of depends on what you do with it. Show me a .223 that will reach out and touch somebody at 1400 yards and maybe you would have a point. Otherwise whether it is "smart" or not would depend on the end result you are looking for.

    Does anybody know if that new upper damages the lower receiver overtime? Being made of aluminum I don't think it could properly handle .50 BMG recoil and might get warped.
    I don't have on personally but have been a lot of competitions where there were guys who did. I have never heard of there being any problem as long as you are using a forged lower. The cast lowers end up cracking. Of course the cast uppers end up cracking when you use them to shoot .223 also, so I am not sure that really tells you anything.

    The recoil from the .50 is not as bad as most people imagine due to the huge muzzle brake you see on almost all of them. It is about the same as a 20 gauge.
    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. —Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by daewoo View Post
    I am well aware of what the .50 BMG is. There are several uppers for the AR-15 available for it. The ALS .50 upper is one of the most common .50 rifles you see at any decent sized competition. The other one you see frequently is the tactilite series from Zel Custom. There are dozens of different manufacturers that make .50BMG uppers.

    Also, the desert eagle was chambered in .50 AE (action express) not .50 Beowulf.
    Catch up time:your right I'm wrong"my bad".
    Still 12.7 x 42 mm is a long way from 12x99mm which is what Galileo is thinking,(I think).He's probably still wondering how they crammed that in a Dessert Eagle.People think .50 they think .50.

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