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Thread: Pearl Harbor Anniversary - The BIG LIE Remembered

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazyjason View Post
    A Jewish conspiracy? Now I've heard everything... Perhaps you should have been alive in a different time and place where such festering ideals were the premises for the degradation and slaughter of untold millions...

    Such speech puts the taste of bile in my mouth... Your kind blame a race rather than an ideal, seek to tarnish rather than heal, and create more divide and hurt than you realize....

    I've heard enough of this sick twisted scheme...
    I've plenty more sick twisted schemes in store for you, I get the inspiration from 'symbiote's


    Actually, I am also inspired by the antics of the three protagonists of "Foucault's Pendulum.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I've plenty more sick twisted schemes in store for you, I get the inspiration from 'symbiote's
    I doubt it not....

  3. #33
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    true or false

    The reason most landers on Mars have come to a sorry end and stopped sending data soon after landing or not at all is because the Martians destroy them or disable them.

    Elvis is not ‘in the building’ but yes, he is alive and has composed several songs for Chris Isaak. He had to disappear because the Mafia was after him once again. He makes a living as an Elvis impersonator and funny enough is his best disguise. He alters his voice of course but once in a while he slips into his real voice. Those sightings of him are real, but who’s gonna believe you?

    Of course we know that Oswald didn’t shoot JFK. KGB records reveal that he was a lousy shoot and couldn’t hit an elephant 3 foot away. Jackie and LBJ conspired to have JFK killed. She wanted him dead for his affair with Marilyn Monroe and Johnson because he wanted the Presidency. They used Cuban hit men supplied by Fidel Castro as payback for the Bay of Pigs invasion.

    Marilyn Monroe was killed by Peter Lawford following orders from Robert Kennedy after Marilyn threatened him to make her affair public when he refused to leave his wife for her. It is all in an FBI report to Hoover.

    The FBI report says Kennedy had promised Monroe he would divorce his wife and marry her, but the actress eventually realized he had no intention of doing so. About this time, he had told her not to worry about 20th Century Fox cancelling her contract - "he would take care of everything". When nothing happened, she called him at work and they had "unpleasant words. She was reported to have threatened to make public their affair."
    Hoover, keeper of America's secrets, was obsessed with the private life of celebrities, particularly those with leftist leanings. The files show the FBI tracked Monroe from the Cold War mid-1950s to her death in 1962, but particularly after she met and married the playwright Arthur Miller, who was being watched as a possible communist.

    Osama bin Laden is in hiding not for what he did, but for what he did not. He knows too much, he is the fall guy for 9/11. He is not in Afghanistan or Pakistan but in Paraguay.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    No Jews or neo-conservatives died in the attack.
    False.

    Only the government knew what disastrous effect the attacks would have on the buildings after expert mathematical modelling was done.
    Because only the US government would be able to find an engineer to do the calculations, right?

    The planes carried fuel of a higher energy than normal aviation fuel and also their cargo bays were loaded with aviation fuel.
    Sure you're right. And you have "proof" of this...correct?

    All told Winny, your 9/11 conspiracy theory is laughable at best.

    Might want to read this:
    Al Jazeera English - Archive - Full transcript of bin Ladin's speech
    Not only does Bin Laden take personal responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, he tells us what motivated him and gave him the idea for them.

    So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

    I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

    The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

    I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

    The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

    In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

    And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
    I guess a taped confession isn't good enough for you?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  5. #35
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by jazyjason View Post
    JP the memos have no direct link to Pearl Harbor nor to Yamaoto's fleet. You of all people should realize that grasping at thin air produces nothing. Yes the attack on Pearl solidified a nation and unified her efforts to enter the war.

    But you cannot simply sit here and blame FDR simply because our nation was ill prepared for such a tactical and brilliant strategy on the part of the Japanese. Such had never been attempted. Remember that blitzkrieg was an untested theory until it was played out on the fields of Europe...

    We came from a time of trench warfare and simple biplanes. Technological advances skyrocketed by the time the attack on Pearl occurred. Certainly the memo if valid points to failed safeguards that should have been in place.

    Simply put, even if we had been prepared there would have been little we could have done to stave off such an attack. It is by sheer luck that our own carriers were not sunk or damaged or perhaps the war may have ended differently...

    Also, Yamamoto's fleet could not have been spotted in time. They were nearly 300 miles off the coast of Hawaii and simply put, with the carriers doing training exercises the small air force of Pearl was insufficient to carry out the task.

    So now the truth is laid bare. Because of his political stance you deem that he was willing and morally sound in carrying out and letting such a tragedy occur...

    JP sorry but this constitutes only personal idealism wrapped in fallacy and ignorance on your part..

    Sadly this is almost upon the same lines as Winston's anti Jewish heresy. Except it is put soley upon the political ideals of someone opposite of yours that fits the role of the scapegoat and circumstance.
    Sadly, more people bury their heads in the sand when secret documents are finally declassified. The US broke Japanes codes and intercepted dozens of messages between Yamamota and his fleet on its way to Hawaii in NOVEMBER. They were highly classified until relatively recently.
    Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor?
    March 11, 2002
    Robert B. Stinnett, Douglas Cirignano
    An Interview with Robert B. Stinnett by Douglas Cirignano

    On November 25, 1941 Japan’s Admiral Yamamoto sent a radio message to the group of Japanese warships that would attack Pearl Harbor on December 7. Newly released naval records prove that from November 17 to 25 the United States Navy intercepted eighty-three messages that Yamamoto sent to his carriers. Part of the November 25 message read: “...the task force, keeping its movements strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet in Hawaii and deal it a mortal XXXX...”

    One might wonder if the theory that President Franklin Roosevelt had a foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack would have been alluded to in this summer’s movie, Pearl Harbor. Since World War II many people have suspected that Washington knew the attack was coming. When Thomas Dewey was running for president against Roosevelt in 1944 he found out about America’s ability to intercept Japan’s radio messages, and thought this knowledge would enable him to defeat the popular FDR. In the fall of that year, Dewey planned a series of speeches charging FDR with foreknowledge of the attack. Ultimately, General George Marshall, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, persuaded Dewey not to make the speeches. Japan’s naval leaders did not realize America had cracked their codes, and Dewey’s speeches could have sacrificed America’s code-breaking advantage. So, Dewey said nothing, and in November FDR was elected president for the fourth time.

    Now, though, according to Robert Stinnett, author of Simon & Schuster’s Day Of Deceit, we have the proof. Stinnett’s book is dedicated to Congressman John Moss, the author of America’s Freedom of Information Act. According to Stinnett, the answers to the mysteries of Pearl Harbor can be found in the extraordinary number of documents he was able to attain through Freedom of Information Act requests. Cable after cable of decryptions, scores of military messages that America was intercepting, clearly showed that Japanese ships were preparing for war and heading straight for Hawaii. Stinnett, an author, journalist, and World War II veteran, spent sixteen years delving into the National Archives. He poured over more than 200,000 documents, and conducted dozens of interviews. This meticulous research led Stinnet to a firmly held conclusion: FDR knew.
    “Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars,” was Roosevelt’s famous campaign statement of 1940. He wasn’t being ingenuous. FDR’s military and State Department leaders were agreeing that a victorious Nazi Germany would threaten the national security of the United States. In White House meetings the strong feeling was that America needed a call to action. This is not what the public wanted, though. Eighty to ninety percent of the American people wanted nothing to do with Europe’s war. So, according to Stinnett, Roosevelt provoked Japan to attack us, let it happen at Pearl Harbor, and thus galvanized the country to war. Many who came into contact with Roosevelt during that time hinted that FDR wasn’t being forthright about his intentions in Europe. After the attack, on the Sunday evening of December 7, 1941, Roosevelt had a brief meeting in the White House with Edward R. Murrow, the famed journalist, and William Donovan, the founder of the Office of Strategic Services. Later Donovan told an assistant that he believed FDR welcomed the attack and didn’t seem surprised. The only thing Roosevelt seemed to care about, Donovan felt, was if the public would now support a declaration of war. According to Day Of Deceit, in October 1940 FDR adopted a specific strategy to incite Japan to commit an overt act of war. Part of the strategy was to move America’s Pacific fleet out of California and anchor it in Pearl Harbor. Admiral James Richardson, the commander of the Pacific fleet, strongly opposed keeping the ships in harm’s way in Hawaii. He expressed this to Roosevelt, and so the President relieved him of his command. Later Richardson quoted Roosevelt as saying: “Sooner or later the Japanese will commit an overt act against the United States and the nation will be willing to enter the war.”

    To those who believe that government conspiracies can’t possibly happen, Day Of Deceit could prove to them otherwise. Stinnett’s well-documented book makes a convincing case that the highest officials of the government—including the highest official—fooled and deceived millions of Americans about one of the most important days in the history of the country. It now has to be considered one of the most definitive—if not the definitive—book on the subject. Gore Vidal has said, “...Robert Stinnet has come up with most of the smoking guns. Day Of Deceit shows that the famous ‘surprise’ attack was no surprise to our war-minded rulers...” And John Toland, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of the Pearl Harbor book, Infamy, said, “Step by step, Stinnett goes through the prelude to war, using new documents to reveal the terrible secrets that have never been disclosed to the public. It is disturbing that eleven presidents, including those I admired, kept the truth from the public until Stinnett’s Freedom of Information Act requests finally persuaded the Navy to release the evidence.”

    Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor?: Newsroom: The Independent Institute

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    Sadly, more people bury their heads in the sand when secret documents are finally declassified. The US broke Japanes codes and intercepted dozens of messages between Yamamota and his fleet on its way to Hawaii in NOVEMBER. They were highly classified until relatively recently.
    You got any links to those documents?
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  7. #37
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    You got any links to those documents?
    Buy the book "Day of Deceit."

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    False.


    Because only the US government would be able to find an engineer to do the calculations, right?


    Sure you're right. And you have "proof" of this...correct?

    All told Winny, your 9/11 conspiracy theory is laughable at best.

    Might want to read this:
    Al Jazeera English - Archive - Full transcript of bin Ladin's speech
    Not only does Bin Laden take personal responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, he tells us what motivated him and gave him the idea for them.



    I guess a taped confession isn't good enough for you?
    you fell for it! jayjason did too, even when I copied parts of symbiote's posting and did a Hiroshima in response to Pearl Harbor previously.

    But at least jayjason understood it was just a satire a joke on conspiracy nuts such as symbiote and jp.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    Buy the book "Day of Deceit."
    No thanks, I prefer actual history books to fiction. One would think that if such documents had been declassified that they would have made a huge splash into the public pool. This seems rather like an attempt by an author to sell some books. He's even got you out there pimping for him now.

    If the evidence exists, show it to me. Otherwise...
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    Sadly, more people bury their heads in the sand when secret documents are finally declassified. The US broke Japanes codes and intercepted dozens of messages between Yamamota and his fleet on its way to Hawaii in NOVEMBER. They were highly classified until relatively recently.
    OMG!!! thank you jp, for this 'information'. I will never vote for FDR again.
    He ought to be indicted, what he did is criminal, right? The evidence you have supplied is overwhelming.

  11. #41
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    Hello Pot...this is Kettle...come in Pot...over

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    OMG!!! thank you jp, for this 'information'. I will never vote for FDR again.
    He ought to be indicted, what he did is criminal, right? The evidence you have supplied is overwhelming.
    While I don't believe his evidence for 1 second, it is far and away 100 times more convincing than the junk you are putting up as "proof" that 9/11 was an inside job.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  12. #42
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    No thanks, I prefer actual history books to fiction. One would think that if such documents had been declassified that they would have made a huge splash into the public pool. This seems rather like an attempt by an author to sell some books. He's even got you out there pimping for him now.

    If the evidence exists, show it to me. Otherwise...
    Here's the memo outlining FDR's plan to instigate Japan into military action against the US.
    The McCollum Memo: The Smoking Gun of Pearl Harbor

    Here's a detailed explanation of the encrypted messages that were sent and intercepted. Getting the actual documents is probably impossible since they were obtained under an FOIA, so unless the author published them somewhere other than his book, you're SOL.
    http://www.pearlharbor41.com/html/news.html

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPSartre12 View Post
    Here's the memo outlining FDR's plan to instigate Japan into military action against the US.
    The McCollum Memo: The Smoking Gun of Pearl Harbor
    The McCollum Memo is not in any way proof of a Pearl Harbor conspiracy. Try again.

    Here's a detailed explanation of the encrypted messages that were sent and intercepted. Getting the actual documents is probably impossible since they were obtained under an FOIA, so unless the author published them somewhere other than his book, you're SOL.
    News
    No, I'm not SOL...I'm not the one making the argument for the conspiracy. But imagine that..."I have documents that prove it". "Ok, show them to me..." "I can't, but I will tell you all about them..."

    But riddle me this Batman...

    If many Japanese officers and sailors of the strike force clearly state that they kept strict radio silence during the mission, and even state that in most cases radios were diasbabled or dismantled to prevent communications, how do they fit in to the conspiracy? Did we somehow convince them to construct a lie that they maintained strict radio silence? The conspiracy theorists go on and on about these messages that were recieved, even when Japan says they are wrong. Makes you wonder.
    "Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

    Long is the way
    And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    While I don't believe his evidence for 1 second, it is far and away 100 times more convincing than the junk you are putting up as "proof" that 9/11 was an inside job.
    it is 100 times (how did you calculate that ?) more convincing ? so you are convinced ?

    I like this forum

  15. #45
    JPSartre12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by snakespit View Post
    The McCollum Memo is not in any way proof of a Pearl Harbor conspiracy. Try again.
    The McCollum Memo shows that FDR was actively attempting to provoke Japan into taking a military action against the US. Follow that with FDR's memo that our military was not to take any pre-emptive action against Japan and you've got a lit fuse.
    No, I'm not SOL...I'm not the one making the argument for the conspiracy. But imagine that..."I have documents that prove it". "Ok, show them to me..." "I can't, but I will tell you all about them..."
    If you want the evidence, but the damn book yourself.
    But riddle me this Batman...

    If many Japanese officers and sailors of the strike force clearly state that they kept strict radio silence during the mission, and even state that in most cases radios were diasbabled or dismantled to prevent communications, how do they fit in to the conspiracy? Did we somehow convince them to construct a lie that they maintained strict radio silence? The conspiracy theorists go on and on about these messages that were recieved, even when Japan says they are wrong. Makes you wonder.
    According to cryptographers AND the crew of at least one cruise ship in the area, there wasn't radio silence.
    Here's a source that you can check:
    On November 24th, 1941, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto sent a radio message to Admiral Chuichi Nagumo, Commander of the Pacific Striking Fleet, which read in part,

    "The task force, keeping its movement strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet in Hawaii and deal it a mortal XXXX".

    Two sources of the above message are Admiral Homer Wallin's "Pearl Harbor", published by the US Government printing office, and the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (Pacific) Naval Analysis Division's "The Campaigns of the Pacific War", also published by the US Government printing office.

    HISTORY OF PEARL HARBOR - WE FIND THE BONES OF "STATION H"
    I haven't located either of these, so I can't say if they're legit or not.

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