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Thread: Motherless Infants

  1. #1
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    Motherless Infants

    Most of their mothers died giving birth or soon after — something that, in poor countries, leaves newborns at great risk of dying, too. The children are here just temporarily, to get a start in life so they can return to their villages and their extended families when they are 2 or 3 years old, well past the fragile days of infancy and big enough to digest cow’s milk and eat regular food.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/wo.../25orphan.html

    But they are not fetuses, alas, so who gives a damn?
    BEREGA, Tanzania — A handwritten ledger at the hospital tells a grim story. For the month of January, 17 of the 31 minor surgical procedures here were done to repair the results of “incomplete abortions.” A few may have been miscarriages, but most were botched operations by untrained, clumsy hands.

    Abortion is illegal in Tanzania (except to save the mother’s life or health), so women and girls turn to amateurs, who may dose them with herbs or other concoctions, pummel their bellies or insert objects vaginally. Infections, bleeding and punctures of the uterus or bowel can result, and can be fatal. Doctors treating women after these bungled attempts sometimes have no choice but to remove the uterus.

    Pregnancy and childbirth are among the greatest dangers that women face in Africa, which has the world’s highest rates of maternal mortality — at least 100 times those in developed countries. Abortion accounts for a significant part of the death toll.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/health/02abort.html

    But here we are talking about subhuman women whose only role in life is to serve as the vessel for the precious fetus.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  2. #2
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    That's horrible. That's part of why I'm for abortion, the result of making it illegal.

  3. #3
    Mosheh Thezion Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackAttack1887 View Post
    That's horrible. That's part of why I'm for abortion, the result of making it illegal.
    did you miss the part where it is... the attempt to abort. which kills the women.

    it is not child birth that kills those women.

    it is an attempt to abort.


    if they didnt try and kill their baby.. they would not of died.

    Having a child, is not a trajedy... its just part of life.

    its not a wrongful burden... or a flaw of existance.. its nature.




    dah... do you even read what is being posted?


    Pregnancy and childbirth are among the greatest dangers that women face in Africa, which has the world’s highest rates of maternal mortality — at least 100 times those in developed countries. Abortion accounts for a significant part of the death toll.
    -Mosheh Thezion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosheh Thezion View Post
    did you miss the part where it is... the attempt to abort. which kills the women.

    it is not child birth that kills those women.

    it is an attempt to abort.


    if they didnt try and kill their baby.. they would not of died.

    Having a child, is not a trajedy... its just part of life.

    its not a wrongful burden... or a flaw of existance.. its nature.




    dah... do you even read what is being posted?




    -Mosheh Thezion
    Yes, do you? It's in a country with no medical facilities, no sterile place to get it done. A country full of HIV and AIDS. I wouldn't be surprised if these mothers had HIV/AIDS and knew they'd leave their child an orphan.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/wo.../25orphan.html

    But they are not fetuses, alas, so who gives a damn?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/health/02abort.html

    But here we are talking about subhuman women whose only role in life is to serve as the vessel for the precious fetus.

    Thank you for pointing this out Simone.
    I will write a stern latter to the Tanzanian authorities straight away!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosheh Thezion View Post
    did you miss the part where it is... the attempt to abort. which kills the women.....-Mosheh Thezion
    No, you need to read more carefully:
    They die from bleeding, infection, high blood pressure, prolonged labor and botched abortions — problems that can be treated or prevented with basic obstetrical care. But in Tanzania, which has neither the worst nor best medical care in Africa, but is similar to many poor countries, everything is in short supply: doctors, nurses, drugs, equipment, ambulances and paved roads. By the time many women get to the 120-bed hospital here, it is too late to save them.
    Botched abortions are one of the causes of death, but the primary causes of death are bleeding, infection, high blood pressure and prolonged labor.

    And, if abortion were safe and legal and offered as an option during the early term of a pregnancy, particularly in the case of young girls, that cause of death would be dramatically reduced.
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    No, you need to read more carefully:

    Botched abortions are one of the causes of death, but the primary causes of death are bleeding, infection, high blood pressure and prolonged labor.

    And, if abortion were safe and legal and offered as an option during the early term of a pregnancy, particularly in the case of young girls, that cause of death would be dramatically reduced.
    Do you suggest that the USA send supplies or doctors to perform these abortions or that Tanzania does it?

  8. #8
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    Motherless infant

    Some it it better to abort a baby than he will suffer aobut what this world could bring to him...

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    Abortion is four times deadlier than childbirth even in America. And I was personally raised in the foster care system and I thank God it wasn't a pro-choicer that determined whether my quality of life justified my right to live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwyangel View Post
    Abortion is four times deadlier than childbirth even in America.
    Where did you get your statistics, in church?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwyangel View Post
    Abortion is four times deadlier than childbirth even in America. And I was personally raised in the foster care system and I thank God it wasn't a pro-choicer that determined whether my quality of life justified my right to live.
    You make a very excellent point. You did not have your right to live taken away from you. Praise God for that. People often will say, "there are things worse than death." My grandfather's mother died when he was 9 and his father kicked him out of their shack made from Campbell's soup crates. He was completely homeless, living off the land in Kentucky until the age of 16 when a foster family took him in. His quality of life was seemingly terrible, but through determination and hard work, he became a foreman at Cadillac, and raise my father who became a doctor. So who is to decide what a child's outcome will be when there are so many opportunities. It is just people trying to play god. So sad.
    "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?' On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? -Romans 9:19-21 (NASB)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    You make a very excellent point. You did not have your right to live taken away from you. Praise God for that. People often will say, "there are things worse than death." My grandfather's mother died when he was 9 and his father kicked him out of their shack made from Campbell's soup crates. He was completely homeless, living off the land in Kentucky until the age of 16 when a foster family took him in. His quality of life was seemingly terrible, but through determination and hard work, he became a foreman at Cadillac, and raise my father who became a doctor. So who is to decide what a child's outcome will be when there are so many opportunities. It is just people trying to play god. So sad.
    Why do we presume that a fetus has a right to live, particularly in the earliest stages of pregnancy? When does a being become a bearer of rights, and on what basis?

    Meanwhile, if we want to take the "opportunities" argument seriously, shouldn't we also consider the possibilities that an unwanted child will grow up to become a criminal?

    Don't get me wrong: I understand that not every unwanted child grows up to do bad things. Some grow up happy, like the OP or your grandfather (though it doesn't sound like your grandfather was unwanted, i.e., that your great grandmother seriously considered aborting but didn't). But some don't. I've had students who ask, "But what if you're aborting someone who would cure cancer?" to which I always reply, "But what if you're aborting someone who will murder two dozen women and eat them?"

    Again, don't get me wrong: I don't think that abortion is necessarily a moral choice to make under every conceivable circumstance. I just think the "opportunity" argument is used entirely one-sidedly, as if only good possibilities are there to be considered.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwyangel View Post
    Abortion is four times deadlier than childbirth even in America. And I was personally raised in the foster care system and I thank God it wasn't a pro-choicer that determined whether my quality of life justified my right to live.
    I'll second the request for statistical sources.

    Beyond that, I'll just add that I thank goodness that we live in a country where your mother had a choice to do what she believed would be best, without interference from the sort of anti-choicer that you've evidently become. (Just out of curiosity, do you know your birth mother? She could be or have been pro-choice, after all. Pro-choicers have been known to carry their pregnancies to term.)

    I commend you for having done well in the foster system. I just don't think it's reasonable to assume that because you and others do well in that system, the choice should be taken away from those who don't assume that it will work well for everyone.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwyangel View Post
    Abortion is four times deadlier than childbirth even in America. And I was personally raised in the foster care system and I thank God it wasn't a pro-choicer that determined whether my quality of life justified my right to live.
    This is an outright lie.

    Do you people never tire of lying?
    Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

    “War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

    War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

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