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Thread: On the honesty of atheism -- electrolyte v. marc9000

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    On the honesty of atheism -- electrolyte v. marc9000

    In the E/C forum, marc posted the following statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    I can say that atheism lies. Habitually. For money, PUBLIC money. Under the ruse of promoting evolution.
    I challenge marc:

    Where? Show proof. Show proof of every one of your accusations:
    1. that atheism lies
    2. that atheism lies habitually
    3. that atheism lies for money
    4. that atheism lies for public money
    5. that atheism lies under the ruse of promoting evolution

    These must be supported by evidence from qualified sources.
    Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

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    I'm not really all that concerned with what atheism does. My statement about atheism lying was just a response to an equal one from you about Answers In Genesis. YOU made a statement about AIG, and when I countered it with something similar, you want to go into great detail about what I countered with, not what the original subject was. Here's how it all got started. You asked;

    Quote Originally Posted by electrolyte
    Quote:
    Where's the geological evidence for a flood? How did light exist without the sun? Where did the energy for the plants come from if the sun didn't exist yet? I keep asking these questions, yet I never get an answer...
    They weren't all that relevant to the current discussion. I countered with;

    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000
    How did the first life originate? Why can science never create life from non living chemicals? I keep asking these questions, and never get an answer...
    Then, your response;
    Oh, the irony. I say that I never get an answer, and here's marc "responding" with a non-answer. It's your belief, marc, so back it up.
    Here, you asked questions about evidence for the flood etc. well call it questions A. I responded with an equal, complex question to show how broad and therefore ridiculous yours was; question B. Neither have simple, easily defined answers, theyre dependent on worldviews. You called my question B a non answer and disregarded it, continuing to needle me about YOUR question. So, your question A was the only thing you wanted to focus on you disregarded my question B.

    Then later, you made assertion A, as follows;

    Quote Originally Posted by electrolyte
    It's not a tenet of Christianity to lie. AiG does. Habitually. For money. Under the ruse of promoting Christianity. In case you can't put two and two together (and I'm not convinced you can), AiG is whoring itself out under the guise of being Godly.
    I responded with assertion B;
    Originally Posted by marc9000
    I can say that atheism lies. Habitually. For money, PUBLIC money. Under the ruse of promoting evolution.
    your quick response;
    Quote Originally Posted by electrolyte
    Where? Show proof. Show proof of every one of your accusations:

    1. that atheism lies
    2. that atheism lies habitually
    3. that atheism lies for money
    4. that atheism lies for public money
    5. that atheism lies under the ruse of promoting evolution
    This time, your assertion A is disregarded by you. This time, you only want to focus on my assertion B.

    So why the flip flop? The reason is simple, the first time my question B would have put the burden of proof on YOU. The second time, your assertion A would have put the burden of proof on YOU. You always want to present the challenges, yet you always want to put the burden of proof on ME. If YOU want to present challenges, why dont YOU show proof, for every one of YOUR accusations? Why dont YOU show proof;

    That AIG lies
    That AIG lies habitually
    That AIG lies for money
    That AIG lies under the ruse of promoting Christianity.
    That AIG whores itself out under the guise of being Godly

    Why didnt you start a one on one thread honestly accepting a burden of proof, of backing up your own statement?
    Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they can in prison?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    This time, your assertion A is disregarded by you. This time, you only want to focus on my assertion B.

    So why the flip flop? The reason is simple, the first time my question B would have put the burden of proof on YOU. The second time, your assertion A would have put the burden of proof on YOU. You always want to present the challenges, yet you always want to put the burden of proof on ME. If YOU want to present challenges, why dont YOU show proof, for every one of YOUR accusations? Why dont YOU show proof;

    That AIG lies
    That AIG lies habitually
    That AIG lies for money
    That AIG lies under the ruse of promoting Christianity.
    That AIG whores itself out under the guise of being Godly

    Why didnt you start a one on one thread honestly accepting a burden of proof, of backing up your own statement?
    A valid point. I'll work on a sufficient list of AiG's blatant dishonesty.
    Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

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    But that was months ago. What happened to the proof?!

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    I said "that AiG lies."
    AiG "quotes" Alan Feduccia as stating that Archaeopteryx is fully avian. They do not provide a direct citation for this quotation. In fact, Feduccia is not only on record as disagreeing with such a view, he explicitly denies the validity of the claim.
    He actually says, "...The creature thus memorialized was Archaeopteryx lithographica, and, though indisputably birdlike, it could with equal truth be called reptilian.... The Archaeopteryx fossil is, in fact, the most superb example of a specimen perfectly intermediate between two higher groups of living organisms--what has come to be called a 'missing link,' a Rosetta stone of evolution...."

    AiG claims that it has been shown that Pakicetus was a swift land animal. In fact, a reading of the article leads one to the understanding that Pakicetus had no association with an aquatic environment.
    The best they can do is make a lousy case that Pakicetus was a land animal at all. The evidence says otherwise.

    AiG's site says that Ambulocetus is missing a pelvic girdle. They hand-wave away contradictive evidence because they "cannot" confirm that it has undergone peer review. But the latest finds have undergone peer review, and the pelvic girdle is present, yet AiG has left the false claims in their article.

    David Menton of AiG says that Tiktaalik's pelvic fins are small, smaller than their pectoral fins. But no pelvic fin material has been recovered for any specimen of Tiktaalik; accordingly, there is no discussion of pelvic fins in the literature, so Menton cannot possibly know the characteristics of the pelvic fins. He is talking out of his XXX, i.e. lying about the evidence to convince the reader that Tiktaalik is a fish.

    AiG claims that there is no transition fossil evidence for snake evolution or observed mutations showing that leglessness could arise.
    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. And nevermind that many modern snakes have vestigial leg parts.


    I said "that AIG lies habitually."
    Considering the frequency of these lies (and none of these are mere backhanded deceptiveness and "lies of omission" that are even more common), it's clear that AiG lies habitually.


    I said "that AIG lies for money."
    Look at the bottom of those AiG daily stories. They tell you that you can help them keep these [lying and deceptive] stories coming if you'll kindly donate.


    I said "that AIG lies under the ruse of promoting Christianity."
    From their "about us" page:
    Answers in Genesis is an apologetics (i.e., Christianity-defending) ministry, dedicated to enabling Christians to defend their faith and to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ effectively.
    I particularly like this page that pooh-poohs reason and evidence and by the bottom of the page begs the reader to accept what the Bible says because the Bible says to.
    As their mission statement explains that their intent is to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, their massive dishonesty campaign is designed to achieve this goal. This becomes irrefutable upon reading their articles.


    I said "that AIG whores itself out under the guise of being Godly."
    I have shown that AiG lies to promote Christianity and asks for love offerings to continue their apologetics. This is precisely what I meant: AiG engages in disrespectable behavior in an effort to (convince readers that they) spread the gospel.


    Anybody wanting more can go to this site for AiG-specific deception exposing or here for less specific but AiG-including deception.


    Thanks to trebor for his help with this information.
    Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrolyte
    Thanks to trebor for his help with this information.
    Kinda defeats the purpose of the "one on one only" forum, doesn't it?
    Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they can in prison?

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    Gee, marc, let's back up a bit:

    I started this thread to challenge you about the honesty of "atheism." While it is true that my comments about AiG preceeded your comments about atheism, this thread was not for the discussion of that topic. Nevertheless, you felt the need to inject another topic: the (dis)honesty of AiG. trebor messaged me without being asked and provided a link that helped condense the lies; it saved me lots of time compared to the manual searching that I had already begun. Now, I could have just shut up about his help, but I instead chose the route that shows honesty and integrity in addressing this point that is actually tangential to this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    Kinda defeats the purpose of the "one on one only" forum, doesn't it?
    At least I show up: at this point, it's a one-on-none thread. It's now your turn to address the topic of the thread.
    Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrolyte View Post
    Gee, marc, let's back up a bit:

    I started this thread to challenge you about the honesty of "atheism." While it is true that my comments about AiG preceeded your comments about atheism, this thread was not for the discussion of that topic. Nevertheless, you felt the need to inject another topic: the (dis)honesty of AiG. trebor messaged me without being asked and provided a link that helped condense the lies; it saved me lots of time compared to the manual searching that I had already begun. Now, I could have just shut up about his help, but I instead chose the route that shows honesty and integrity in addressing this point that is actually tangential to this thread.
    Did he help you in our formal debate also? Were there several others who messaged you during our formal debate as well?


    At least I show up: at this point, it's a one-on-none thread. It's now your turn to address the topic of the thread.
    It was also a one on none thread from March to June wasn't it? I suppose that was my fault. Can I have two months like you took, or do you once again expose your double standard?

    I happen to be having a really nice summer. I have better things to do than compete against a gang of atheists with scientific degrees and little else to do besides play on forums.

    Maybe I'll be back in two months. Hold your breath.
    Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they can in prison?

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    Enjoy your summer Marc.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    Did he help you in our formal debate also? Were there several others who messaged you during our formal debate as well?
    No. You lost fair and square.

    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    It was also a one on none thread from March to June wasn't it? I suppose that was my fault.
    That's not how I would have worded it. My challenge to you stood the entire time, and you said nothing to back up your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    Can I have two months like you took, or do you once again expose your double standard?
    You've had more time to respond substantively to the challenge than I've had to respond to your red herring. Your response should actually have nothing to do with the dishonesty of AiG. Furthermore, I spent the vast majority of the time between then and now educating people who actually wanted to learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    I have better things to do than compete against a gang of atheists with scientific degrees and little else to do besides play on forums.
    Oh, I have plenty else to do, but I'll gladly smack you down all by myself. Don't try to blame me for your lack of motivation to support your vacuous claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    Maybe I'll be back in two months.
    Your behavior history on this forum suggests otherwise.
    Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
    Enjoy your summer Marc.
    Thanks, same to you. And a happy July 4th weekend to all.
    Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they can in prison?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc9000 View Post
    Maybe I'll be back in two months. Hold your breath.
    I've given your mean-spirited XXX more than three-quarters of a year. Why won't you step up to my challenge, marc?
    Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

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