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Thread: Comments on New Liar's Corner Forum

  1. #1
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    To the admin...

    I'm not sure that I see the point of this new forum. When lies, or accusations of lies, occur in other threads people are generally called on it, in one way or another. And, more often than not instead of facts you get rhetoric in response. And, not too surprisingly, we're seeing the same thing here. So, if someone in this forum refuses to either put up or shut up, then what? Is there going to be some consequence if someone can't back up their accusations, because if not then it seems to me that all that we'll see here is the same ground covered in one thread covered inconclusively here.

  2. #2
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    I personally think it is a good idea to try. I think it is inspired by me and a few others who are tired of someone claiming everything you say (when in disagreement) is a lie. Perhaps at the very least we should post what a lie is.

    In fact, let me know if you agree with this definition: A lie is when you post something that you know to be false, untrue, or misleading.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve View Post
    In fact, let me know if you agree with this definition: A lie is when you post something that you know to be false, untrue, or misleading.
    I'd say that's a good working definition.

  4. #4
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    Glad we agree. Now if we can only get Dane to stop posting so many threads that are not appropriate for this forum.

    Also, are you willing to give this forum a chance? Perhaps we could have a sticky post that tallies those who have accused by couldn't back it up. Like a "top 5 bad posters". haha.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve View Post
    Also, are you willing to give this forum a chance? Perhaps we could have a sticky post that tallies those who have accused by couldn't back it up. Like a "top 5 bad posters". haha.
    That's sort of my point, a chance to do what? What do you think might be accomplished here that can't/isn't be accomplished in the regular threads? Aside from a popularity/unpopularity contest.

  6. #6
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    A more concentrated look at the quality of posters. Perhaps gives the honest posters a look at the big picture of who is actually worth having a debate with. Maybe even the admin will use it when giving the benefit of the doubt or perhaps deciding whether or not to ban someone.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronus View Post
    That's sort of my point, a chance to do what? What do you think might be accomplished here that can't/isn't be accomplished in the regular threads? Aside from a popularity/unpopularity contest.
    I think the main point of this forum was to stop the derailment of other threads with defenses against accusations of dishonesty.
    "Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
    Isaac Asimov

    "Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived"
    Oscar Wilde

  8. #8
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    moderation

    You two can moderate this forum if you like while we test it out. I hope everyone will give it a chance.

    I want people to know if they call someone a liar, they will probably have to prove it. If they can't prove it and continue to call someone a liar, they may get banned. My real goal is to lower the amount of times people call someone a liar. I rarely see what I think is a bold face lie. If you believe what you're saying is true, it's not a lie. Even though it may be wrong.
    Thanks
    admi

  9. #9
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    I see this as a useless, childish forum. As Kronus stated, the accusation of falsehood should be made in the debate. This forum is nothing more than a tool for children to use (as has been adequately demonstrated already). If anyone thinks this forum will significantly reduce similar childish action in the other forums, I find them full of wishful thinking.

    I suppose we should post these comments in another thread lest this one be deleted for not actually accusing a poster of lying. I hope 4forums is not mutating into a biasly moderated site. I've had my fill of those.

    The outnumbered here do not need to be burdened with gnats such as the first set of threads present.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by isly ilwott View Post
    I see this as a useless, childish forum. As Kronus stated, the accusation of falsehood should be made in the debate. This forum is nothing more than a tool for children to use (as has been adequately demonstrated already). If anyone thinks this forum will significantly reduce similar childish action in the other forums, I find them full of wishful thinking.

    I suppose we should post these comments in another thread lest this one be deleted for not actually accusing a poster of lying. I hope 4forums is not mutating into a biasly moderated site. I've had my fill of those.

    The outnumbered here do not need to be burdened with gnats such as the first set of threads present.
    Can you please explain to me why someone should be able to accuse someone of dishonesty, yet not have to support it in any way, shape or form?
    "Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
    Isaac Asimov

    "Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived"
    Oscar Wilde

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Q View Post
    Can you please explain to me why someone should be able to accuse someone of dishonesty, yet not have to support it in any way, shape or form?
    I didn't say they should. All accusations should be supported.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by isly ilwott View Post
    I didn't say they should. All accusations should be supported.
    Exactly. And now, rather than derail what could have been a good discussion to deal with such accusations, we have a seperate forum where this can be done. What is wrong with that idea?

    Oh, and I"m fully in favour of Steeeeve and Kronus as mods here. They've both proven to be quite impartial.
    "Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
    Isaac Asimov

    "Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived"
    Oscar Wilde

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by isly ilwott View Post
    I see this as a useless, childish forum. As Kronus stated, the accusation of falsehood should be made in the debate. This forum is nothing more than a tool for children to use (as has been adequately demonstrated already). If anyone thinks this forum will significantly reduce similar childish action in the other forums, I find them full of wishful thinking.

    I suppose we should post these comments in another thread lest this one be deleted for not actually accusing a poster of lying. I hope 4forums is not mutating into a biasly moderated site. I've had my fill of those.

    The outnumbered here do not need to be burdened with gnats such as the first set of threads present.
    I understand this concern but it seems to be a good idea to true it out. At some point the posters need to be called on it and it gives the admin a concentrated place to decide if a poster is not worthy of being here. I doubt the admin, and I don't mean to speak for him/her, has the time to read every thread so perhaps this will help in reducing bad members.

    It is a trial run and it can't hurt to try....The admin can always delete the forum at no cost.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Q View Post
    Exactly. And now, rather than derail what could have been a good discussion to deal with such accusations, we have a seperate forum where this can be done. What is wrong with that idea?

    Oh, and I"m fully in favour of Steeeeve and Kronus as mods here. They've both proven to be quite impartial.
    ...and I don't mind moderation of a single forum.

    If accusations of lying are not supported in the debate thread (other than in formal debates), the debate will continue whether a new thread in a new forum has been posted or not. A notice in the debate thread will be necessary to assure that the accused visits there and answers the accusation.

    I'll finish this later. Got to run.

  15. #15
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    Comments on New Liar's Corner Forum

    I do not see how this “Liar’s Corner” can be anything but unproductive. I understand the frustration when deception in a post is perceived. There is a difference between unintentionally presenting incorrect information and lying, but determining that difference proves difficult. Many posters present off-topic, irrelevant or unreliable references to support their point. Some present blatantly inaccurate or misleading information. I don’t think that anyone does this deliberately. Most simply do not have the reasoning skills or the experience in understanding how to access, discern or present information in a scholarly manner. I don’t think anyone really thinks they are lying. If someone actually is engage in knowing, deliberate deception, calling them on it is certainly not going to make a whit of difference.

    My point is that labeling any of this as “lying” can never be productive. Liars will never admit it and those that are merely misinformed and too dim to know the difference will take offense and dig their heels in harder. No one hears you if you call them a liar. I am not saying liars don’t exist, I am just trying to be pragmatic.

    Now, I understand when misinformation is presented and the request for confirmation of that information by a mutually considered reliable source is never presented, one can get justifiably frustrated. I also would bristle if I was called a liar and I asked for an example of that and that never arrives. Both of these happen all the time. Asking repeatedly, however, never works. What you get is this insane forum, full of sniping and name calling.

    I think that some posters simply do not have the reasoning skills to respond to questions directly. Sometimes emotions are so high and feelings are hurt so badly that the urge to merely lash out is likely. I don’t actually understand why emotions and feelings need ever get so agitated in an intellectual discussion and if one finds himself in that position they should count to 100 before posting or simply drop out of the discussion.

    Likewise I don’t see why we should even engage in a dialogue with those habitual stretchers of the truth, spouters without reasoned thoughts, those who are characterologically manipulative and especially those who routinely insult the poster. We just shouldn’t play with those naughty kids.

    This “Liar’s” forum is almost unreadable, in my opinion. I would propose dropping it. The way to solve the problem is simply to avoid engaging with the worst offenders.
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin

    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision" - Bertrand Russell

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