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Thread: AA lying about my religion/faith

  1. #16
    Archangel Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by obvious_child View Post
    Do you have evidence of you informing him of this?

    Furthermore, as stated, a lie is only a lie if the user of a statement knowingly states what they know to be false as the truth.

    Can someone be said to be lying if they believe what they are saying is the truth even if in reality it is not?

    You can't call someone who is delusional a liar as their reality is twisted to where they believe what normal people would consider untrue to be true.
    Hey child, please don't defend me if you once again have the audacity to claim that rather than be lying, I'm simply delusional. I'm not delusional and have shown above how inconsistent Dane is in his beliefs and his condemnation of me as a so called fellow christian. It makes no sense that one who claims to be a christian would so adamantly hate another self professed believer in and follower of Christ.

    Let Dane simply support his christian beliefs by explaining what it is he believes that is biblically based. I submit he can't do that because the only beliefs he has ever defended here, other than demanding that he is a christian, is his belief and defense in evolution which exists in opposition to any belief in the biblical creation account. So I submit to you that it is those who cling to that false belief system that are the truly delusional victims of a man made fairy tale, and not the creationists who give an intelligent being credit for creating the organized chain of life that exists.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    Hey child, please don't defend me if you once again have the audacity to claim that rather than be lying, I'm simply delusional.
    You seem to give the impression that you are never dishonest despite being informed and proved that you are at least using dishonest arguments. For example, you claimed before that chimps have virtually no creativity. I posted a link from one of their keepers proving you wrong. A few weeks later you posted the same exact argument. Since you were obviously informed to being wrong but kept using the refuted argument which was proven to be false, you are either lying or delusional.

    I'm not delusional and have shown above how inconsistent Dane is in his beliefs and his condemnation of me as a so called fellow christian. It makes no sense that one who claims to be a christian would so adamantly hate another self professed believer in and follower of Christ.
    Actually it makes perfect sense. And you have not shown how Dane is inconsistent. Someone who sees another self proclaimed believer defiling their religion, spreading lies, false information and deceit in the name of their religion will get ###### off. Muslims regularly threaten each other over it and sometimes kill each other for allegedly defiling Islam.

    Let Dane simply support his christian beliefs by explaining what it is he believes that is biblically based. I submit he can't do that because the only beliefs he has ever defended here, other than demanding that he is a christian, is his belief and defense in evolution which exists in opposition to any belief in the biblical creation account.
    Which doesn't prove he's not a Christian. You have never dealt with your dishonest tactic of implying your interpretation = Christianity. In fact you always ran from that point. One recent thread you stated I attacked you for your interpretation where I actually stated your tying was dishonest. You never returned to that thread.

    Just because one doesn't accept literal creation does not make them no longer a Christian.

    So I submit to you that it is those who cling to that false belief system that are the truly delusional victims of a man made fairy tale, and not the creationists who give an intelligent being credit for creating the organized chain of life that exists.
    A false belief system? Notice that you have completely failed to support such an attack and when faced with arguments for why your belief is true, your arguments are either non-existent or "don't know, therefore Goddidit"


    The main point is, while your assumption about the theistic beliefs of Dane were wrong, stupid, ignorant and based on nothing, that doesn't make you a liar in that regard, just wrong and should have taught you that assuming is hardly a valid way of making good arguments, especially when you have nothing concrete to build the assumption on.
    "You are, of course, free to make your own calls on how much rationality you want to impose upon yourself." - Kronus

  3. #18
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    I'm giving one last chance for Dane to show where AA made a claim about Dane that was unfounded (more so that AA said Dane lied or equivalent) or I'll have to close the thread.

    The purpose of this forum is not to say someone is lying.

  4. #19
    Archangel Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by obvious_child View Post
    You seem to give the impression that you are never dishonest despite being informed and proved that you are at least using dishonest arguments. For example, you claimed before that chimps have virtually no creativity. I posted a link from one of their keepers proving you wrong. A few weeks later you posted the same exact argument. Since you were obviously informed to being wrong but kept using the refuted argument which was proven to be false, you are either lying or delusional.
    I am never dishonest about my beliefs, nor are my arguments dishonest either. That is your debating tactic. And regarding your evidence that chimps are creative? Bullpucky. I was asking why no other animal has every attained creativity on par with human inventiveness and you post a typical link pointing out that chimps use sticks to dig out insects or some such foolishness. Nothing close to meeting what I was referring to. So it wasn't worthy of consideration of any valid evidence of anything. So it is you who is lying and/or delusional.

    Also, I just recently asked the whole bunch of you how you can claim so adamantly that the so called primate/hominid fossils such as Lucy, Peking, Java and Neanderthal MAN are related to modern man because of genetic markers that evolutionists claim is evidence of our biological kinship, when chimps share 98% of our DNA, and are contemporary to us currently so we can observe first hand how inferior they are to us in all aspects of intelligence, imagination, creativity and reason. Not one of you dealt with that question at all. you all completely evaded even touching it even though I reposted it repeatedly.

    Actually it makes perfect sense. And you have not shown how Dane is inconsistent. Someone who sees another self proclaimed believer defiling their religion, spreading lies, false information and deceit in the name of their religion will get ###### off. Muslims regularly threaten each other over it and sometimes kill each other for allegedly defiling Islam.
    JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE MY ANSWERS, IT DOESN'T MEAN I'M LYING. AND AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE TO FLAME WITH YOUR SLANDEROUS CR*P, WE WILL NEVER GET PASSED THIS NAME CALLING

    Which doesn't prove he's not a Christian. You have never dealt with your dishonest tactic of implying your interpretation = Christianity. In fact you always ran from that point. One recent thread you stated I attacked you for your interpretation where I actually stated your tying was dishonest. You never returned to that thread.
    You don't have any more a clue as to what defines a true chritian than he does so what are you talking about?

    Just because one doesn't accept literal creation does not make them no longer a Christian.
    He defends abortion too, and every other godless perspective he debates about. He also takes positions against everyone here with any spiritual perspective at all. One can't claim to be a believer, and then stand against every believer in every debate. It just doesn't work that way in reality.

    A false belief system? Notice that you have completely failed to support such an attack and when faced with arguments for why your belief is true, your arguments are either non-existent or "don't know, therefore Goddidit"
    Since when are you the final or ultimate judge of what is proof of anything child? You make your ridiculous claims and they are true to you; I make claims based on my beliefs and all of a sudden they are just foolishness. Your double standards know no bounds.

    The main point is, while your assumption about the theistic beliefs of Dane were wrong, stupid, ignorant and based on nothing, that doesn't make you a liar in that regard, just wrong and should have taught you that assuming is hardly a valid way of making good arguments, especially when you have nothing concrete to build the assumption on.
    NOTE THE BOLDED: The only persons assumptions that are wrong, stupid, ignorant and based on nothing are yours. Because if you think that after being a believer in, and follower of Christ for 32+ years, that I can't recognize another born again believer, well, again; note the bolded above because it's describing you and your arrogance to make such unfounded assumptions.
    Last edited by Archangel; 02-22-2008 at 06:37 PM. Reason: We don't need mega text to read what it says

  5. #20
    Archangel Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve View Post
    I'm giving one last chance for Dane to show where AA made a claim about Dane that was unfounded (more so that AA said Dane lied or equivalent) or I'll have to close the thread.

    The purpose of this forum is not to say someone is lying.
    Then why aren't you telling child to stop calling me a liar?????

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    Then why aren't you telling child to stop calling me a liar?????
    If you want to ask someone to prove a claim of lying then you know where to do it There is also a report button if you feel a post is against forum rules.

  7. #22
    Archangel Guest
    Who edited the size of my red bolded statement on post 19 and why was it done?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    Who edited the size of my red bolded statement on post 19 and why was it done?
    If you look at the very bottom of that post you will see who did it and the reason they gave.

  9. #24
    Dane Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by obvious_child View Post
    Do you have evidence of you informing him of this?
    Look at the first post. In post 16, aa accuses me of being a secular humanist, in post 18, I correct him, and in post 19 he accuses me again.
    Furthermore, as stated, a lie is only a lie if the user of a statement knowingly states what they know to be false as the truth.
    And as I informed him in post 18, his statement in 19 is a lie.
    Can someone be said to be lying if they believe what they are saying is the truth even if in reality it is not?
    Show me his "belief" rather than his action and i might agree.
    You can't call someone who is delusional a liar as their reality is twisted to where they believe what normal people would consider untrue to be true.
    So you are saying that it is impossible for somebody to lie because they may be delusional, in other words?

  10. #25
    Dane Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    Hey child, please don't defend me if you once again have the audacity to claim that rather than be lying, I'm simply delusional. I'm not delusional and have shown above how inconsistent Dane is in his beliefs and his condemnation of me as a so called fellow christian. It makes no sense that one who claims to be a christian would so adamantly hate another self professed believer in and follower of Christ.
    "It isn't so because I can't believe it to be" is not really evidence of anything other than you being narrow minded and unable to think outside of your perspective. We call that Narcissism.
    Let Dane simply support his christian beliefs by explaining what it is he believes that is biblically based.
    My faith in God follows that of mainstream Christian Churches, you lie about me being a secular humanist none withstanding.
    I submit he can't do that because the only beliefs he has ever defended here, other than demanding that he is a christian, is his belief and defense in evolution
    Another lie. I don't "believe" in Evolution, faith is not involved. Actual evidence is.
    which exists in opposition to any belief in the biblical creation account.
    A lie.

  11. #26
    Dane Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeeeve View Post
    I'm giving one last chance for Dane to show where AA made a claim about Dane that was unfounded (more so that AA said Dane lied or equivalent) or I'll have to close the thread.

    The purpose of this forum is not to say someone is lying.
    I provided the evidence of correcting AA's misrepresentation of my Faith and him keeping right on repeating that claim. That very much fits what a lie is. So I was correct in my characterization of AA as a liar.

  12. #27
    Dane Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    You don't have any more a clue as to what defines a true chritian than he does so what are you talking about?
    So you are the definer. back to that narcissism of yours again.
    He defends abortion too, and every other godless perspective he debates about.
    Evolution and abortion are not Godless. You are again lying
    He also takes positions against everyone here with any spiritual perspective at all.
    A flat-out lie. I only take position against the hate mongering, lying right-wing fundie theocrats. I have no argument with people with a spiritual perspective without that intolerant and bigoted perspective.
    One can't claim to be a believer, and then stand against every believer in every debate. It just doesn't work that way in reality.
    But then I don't do that either, your misrepresentation none withstanding.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    Evolution and abortion are not Godless. You are again lying
    No, that's his opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    A flat-out lie. I only take position against the hate mongering, lying right-wing fundie theocrats. I have no argument with people with a spiritual perspective without that intolerant and bigoted perspective.
    Now that one was a lie. Do you see the difference? If something can't be proven one way or the other, as in the first case, then holding an opinion isn't a lie even if you don't agree with the opinion. But in matters of fact, like the later case, then lying is possible. And since it's obvious that you haven't opposed every spiritual position put forth here, we can state that lying has indeed taken place.

    It would help your case a lot if you would make that distinction.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane View Post
    Another lie. I don't "believe" in Evolution, faith is not involved. Actual evidence is.A lie.
    Wel, now come on. That's getting into semantic quibbling. You do in fact BELIEVE evolution happened. You believe it because of the evidence, but nevertheless you do believe it. The difference lies in what leads you to your belief--empiricism instead of faith.
    Last edited by jyoshu; 02-22-2008 at 08:36 AM.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
    I am never dishonest about my beliefs, nor are my arguments dishonest either.
    This brings me back to my point in this forum about delusional. You have stated that your arguments and beliefs not never dishonest.

    Yet you have used misquotes, quote mines, fabrications and outright lies from quotes on Kitts and Patterson, dynamic stalling vs fixed wing calculations, tv props as evidence of creation and a whole long list of dishonest arguments. Since you genuinely believe as stated, you are never dishonest nor are your arguments, you must therefore believe that the things I listed are indeed factual. If that is the case, you are indeed not lying. You are just delusional and refuse to accept anything that you do not like as fact.

    That is your debating tactic. And regarding your evidence that chimps are creative? Bullpucky.
    Apparently those who spend time watching, training and caring for them don't matter in evaluating their creativity. So, by that logic we should not ask anyone who is an expert in their field about that subject but instead ask people who are arm chair generals without any formal training or experience in those fields. Who should NASA consult since we can't trust their scientists' opinions on space flight? After all, your logic dictates that their keeper and trainer's opinion is worthless, therefore NASA's opinion on space flight, their key interest and expertise area is also worthless by the same logic.

    I was asking why no other animal has every attained creativity on par with human inventiveness and you post a typical link pointing out that chimps use sticks to dig out insects or some such foolishness. Nothing close to meeting what I was referring to. So it wasn't worthy of consideration of any valid evidence of anything. So it is you who is lying and/or delusional.
    You stated that chimps have a creativity level that is tiny and nowhere near humans. I posted a link that had input from one of their keepers who refuted you and now you are saying I, who linked the article from a Chimp's Keeper is delusional, but you who has no experience with them and posted nothing of value to refute are not delusional.

    Wow. I think I'm going to order my DSM-IV copy now.

    Not one of you dealt with that question at all. you all completely evaded even touching it even though I reposted it repeatedly.
    Obviously you failed to read the thread properly. There at least least three posts detaling with just that.

    "]JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE MY ANSWERS, IT DOESN'T MEAN I'M LYING. AND AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE TO FLAME WITH YOUR SLANDEROUS CR*P, WE WILL NEVER GET PASSED THIS NAME CALLING
    See first paragraph. You're not lying. You're delusional. Many of your arguments have been proven to be using dishonest evidence. Since you stated your arguments are 'NEVER' dishonest, you must think they are honest. As they factually wrong and dishonest, you therefore believe otherwise despite being corrected.

    You don't have any more a clue as to what defines a true chritian than he does so what are you talking about?
    Nice true scotsman's fallacy. And we all know that your definition of a True Christian is one who believes exactly the same things you do. Of course that doesn't mean you are a Christian either.

    He defends abortion too, and every other godless perspective he debates about. He also takes positions against everyone here with any spiritual perspective at all. One can't claim to be a believer, and then stand against every believer in every debate. It just doesn't work that way in reality.
    Nowhere in the Bible does it say abortion is wrong. Furthermore, God commanded the Israelites to kill the Cannite's unborn children. And Augustine has stated that the soul only enters the body when it is fully formed. And you don't know who every believer is either. You can't make such assumptions and expect them to be taken on fact.

    Since when are you the final or ultimate judge of what is proof of anything child? You make your ridiculous claims and they are true to you; I make claims based on my beliefs and all of a sudden they are just foolishness. Your double standards know no bounds.
    Cite or I assume you are being delusional. This is going to be fun. I'd rather use delusional then liar. Care to discuss the 20+ page flood thread? Where you never got around to addressing the arguments?

    NOTE THE BOLDED: The only persons assumptions that are wrong, stupid, ignorant and based on nothing are yours. Because if you think that after being a believer in, and follower of Christ for 32+ years, that I can't recognize another born again believer, well, again; note the bolded above because it's describing you and your arrogance to make such unfounded assumptions.
    Obviously you think you are the ultimate authority for stating who is and who is not. Again, you haven't proven your interpretation is correct (this is what, like the 50th time I've pointed that out?) and you keep tying your interpretation to what Christanity is rather then honestly admitting that your interpretation is just an interpretation, no more correct then anyone else's.

    If you truly mean what you mean in your first paragraph, you are by all measures, delusional.
    "You are, of course, free to make your own calls on how much rationality you want to impose upon yourself." - Kronus

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