http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/961102.html
here

Originally Posted by Draconis

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/961102.html
here

TY Dracule. I knew about the curvature thing, and just forgot how to add 2+2. Duhh! TY. It was kinda buggin me for a while. I shoulda put the two things together. Guess I musta inhaled too much and rotted out some grey cells! LOL! I should know dis stuff... I read it so many times... GEEZ! Kick me!

your welcome, and you don't have grey cells, you have grey matter

Originally Posted by treat2

I have a question about photons and gravity. It's not a trick question, and someone with a basic knowledge of Physics should be able to answer it. (I should too, but I've not had time to get into this stuff yet.)

Light is basically photons.

Photons are massless particles. Particles with zero mass.

As I have just mentioned in the other thread - Photons have a zero invariant mass. But, when they're travelling at the speed of light - they definitely have some energy. They have a static mass of zero.

listen if your going to try to correct people Mr. Dream Beaver get your information right. Don't just guess stuff then say that it is right. Cause, you are wrong. If you would like I could eleborate on the ways you are wrong, but only if you want me too.

Originally Posted by Draconis

listen if your going to try to correct people Mr. Dream Beaver get your information right. Don't just guess stuff then say that it is right. Cause, you are wrong. If you would like I could eleborate on the ways you are wrong, but only if you want me too.

Quite the contrary. Ad Homien is a logical fallacy, and if you want to debate - you should find out the other ones. There was nothing guessed in my post and I urge you to show me that photons do not have an invariant mass of zero or that they do not have energy when travelling at the speed of light. That is just standard astrophysics.

Photons are a form of boson. Boson's simply carry energy from point A to Point B. Of course the energy said boson is carrying is energy in itself, but photons cannot have infinite matter because they are not real. And please don't use the words "logic fallacy", I don't know who started that but it is jsut erritating.

Originally Posted by Draconis

Photons are a form of boson. Boson's simply carry energy from point A to Point B. Of course the energy said boson is carrying is energy in itself, but photons cannot have infinite matter because they are not real. And please don't use the words "logic fallacy", I don't know who started that but it is jsut erritating.

That doesn't mean much. Since the photons spin is one, we know that they are bosons. All the fundamental particles are either bosons or ferminons. Photons are a quantum of excitation, that is, of the quantised electromagnetic field.

I don't know who stated that photons were infinite in mass, but I'm quite sure that they are wrong.

Originally Posted by Draconis

Photons are a form of boson. Boson's simply carry energy from point A to Point B. Of course the energy said boson is carrying is energy in itself, but photons cannot have infinite matter because they are not real. And please don't use the words "logic fallacy", I don't know who started that but it is jsut erritating.

You are on a "debate" forum. It only makes sense one would use the term "logical fallacy". It simply means that your conclusion is incorrect based on the fact that you used an improper thought process to get there. Logic is a method of arriving at solutions. If your assumptions are correct, and you offer logical analysis, your conclusions will be correct.

Photons do not have infinite mass. That is correct. They do have energy. This is observed in the fact that a single photon produces an electromagnetic interference pattern in a two slit gradient test.

I would like to apologize for my early post's insulting qualites and would like to continue this debate on more freindly terms from this point inward.

OK, now to the discussion at hand. I am actually a bit confused as to your argument. You say that at a static level photons have zero mass, yet they still have energy enough to attian velocity? Are you sure you don't mean that photons behave like they have mass when the electromagnetic feild of the photon reaches the upper levels, and the photon starts acting more like a particle?

Originally Posted by Draconis

I would like to apologize for my early post's insulting qualites and would like to continue this debate on more freindly terms from this point inward.

Agreed.

You say that at a static level photons have zero mass, yet they still have energy enough to attian velocity? Are you sure you don't mean that photons behave like they have mass when the electromagnetic feild of the photon reaches the upper levels, and the photon starts acting more like a particle?

How are you defining mass? Photons can have relativistic mass, which depends on its wavelength. The term isn't too widely used, but it is one of the ways that we talk about mass. Photons certainly have a rest mass of zero. At least, according to quantum electrodynamics.

The arugement that photons gain mass as they go faster sounds true but when we think about it...

A ball, lets say...rubber, is speeding along nicely in space. Now somehow that ball is pushed really fast. Its mass increases, and because mass and energy are the same thing, that ball should go faster.

(in more detail here) As the ball's mass increases so does its veloecity because the more mass of something the faster it goes. So when we approach the speed of light how come the ball dosen't have infinite energy from its infinite inertia?

Honestly, I think I understand but only for this example.

Originally Posted by Draconis

The arugement that photons gain mass as they go faster sounds true but when we think about it...

A ball, lets say...rubber, is speeding along nicely in space. Now somehow that ball is pushed really fast. Its mass increases, and because mass and energy are the same thing, that ball should go faster.

(in more detail here) As the ball's mass increases so does its veloecity because the more mass of something the faster it goes. So when we approach the speed of light how come the ball dosen't have infinite energy from its infinite inertia?

Honestly, I think I understand but only for this example.

Photons don't exist when they're static! They have no mass! Mass and energy are not the same thing, but they are interlinked. You can calculate the mass of a photon at the speed of light using Einstein's handy equation. A ball cannot travel at the speed of light. Nothing can - except photons. Even information cannot. Photons can travel at a slower speed than the speed of light, but when they stop - they cease to exist.

Originally Posted by dreamweaver

Photons don't exist when they're static! They have no mass! Mass and energy are not the same thing, but they are interlinked. You can calculate the mass of a photon at the speed of light using Einstein's handy equation. A ball cannot travel at the speed of light. Nothing can - except photons. Even information cannot. Photons can travel at a slower speed than the speed of light, but when they stop - they cease to exist.

Dream: Are you saying that a photon cannot have an absolute velocity of zero or are you saying that a photon cannot have a relative velocity of zero? If it is brought to rest what happens to the energy?