For all those Christians who beleive religion determines heaven and hell for an indivisual rather than their works.
Here is a teaching from Jesus:

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/...on&showxref=on

Matthew 25:31 - 25:46

And what does this mean?

That the ones who does good is rewarded and the one who does bad is punished.

Sorry to say but if you have any other translation I have to tell you that your not being open minded and your taking this as a fight rather than a good debate.


Always Stay Open Minded

__________________
The search for truth exists on the faulty assumptions that the truth exists, and that you can find it.

- Proud Israel supporter -

BlindArtist326@netscape.net

I do believe that. I believe there are degrees of reward and degress of punishment. If there weren't, the God could just say, "Believe, and do what ever you want. NO big deal. Have fun." The Bible teaches that we are saved by faith, not by works.

Ok, that is about as close-minded a statement as I have ever heard. Come on Poet, you are better than this.

__________________
A "no" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "yes" merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.

Gandhi

WarriorPoet,
The Bible says that we are saved by faith. It does not say that we are saved by faith alone. Faith appears with alone in only one place in the bible. It is in James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

We are saved by faith and works. One must read Paul's epistles in context. When he states that it is not by works that we are saved, he is speaking of works of the Jewish law. Christian works are distinct.

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maximus

"There are not over a hundred people...who hate the Roman Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church" -Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

"Man is not merely an evolution but rather a revolution." G.K. Chesterton

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried." G.K. Chesterton

Poet,

"Ok, that is about as close-minded a statement as I have ever heard. Come on Poet, you are better than this."

- Do you dare to propose some other sort of interpretation?


Always Stay Open Minded

__________________
The search for truth exists on the faulty assumptions that the truth exists, and that you can find it.

- Proud Israel supporter -

BlindArtist326@netscape.net

I believe I agreed somewhat with your interpretation, but I do not agree with how far you carry it. You are saying that Jesus is teaching that you have to do good to get into Heaven. I am saying that looking at the broader scope of the teachings of the whole Bible instead of one passage, clearly the Bible teaches that faith is what saves. Our good or bads works determine our levels of reward or punishment. Please read the passages below.

Maximus, I am answering you in the next reply.

__________________
A "no" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "yes" merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.

Gandhi

Maximus, I believe that faith saves us UNTO works, meaning that works will be evident in someone with true, believing faith.

In other words, a real faith and not a said faith. What James points out clearly is that I have a real faith if it is accompanied with deeds. You have a dead faith if it is not accompanied by deeds. Many critics like to use James to nullify Paul, but I contend that Paul has not a better apologist than James. They complete each other. It is a beautiful symmetry.

[edited for spelling errors]

__________________
A "no" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a "yes" merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.

Gandhi

Maxius am I to understand you believe that God dyiong for my sin is not enough to save me I must also be good or do good. What is good enough. When Have I done enough. Jesus could not have said "It is finished" if I had more to do. No the salvation comes before the faith. No one comes unto the son unless the Father draws him. God calls us to repentance, and salvation. It is our responce to this call that is Faith. Yes indeed this faith is dead unless it is followed by works. But it is and always will be Faith. If this where any other way we would be doomed. If I rely on my own works I can never measure up to the mark of perfection. And I would always wonder if I have done enough. This is not faith it is actually the absence of faith.

Illustration.
If I say I have faith in a chair to hold me as I sit in it and never place my weight on that chair I acutually do not have faith in this chair. I could pretend to sit and work all the time holding my balance off the the chair but this work keeps me from the one thing I need, which is to sit.

Lappster,
No, I never said that Jesus' sacrifice was not sufficient. It is perfectly sufficient. However, salvation does not come BEFORE faith. You must do good.

Matthew 24:13, "But he who endures to the end will be saved" Why must one endure if salvation is already granted?
Romans 11:22, "provided you continue in his kindness;otherwise you too will be cut off" those who have faith and the grace of God may choose to reject it and they will be cut off
Philemon 2:12, "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" Work out your salvation?
1 Cor 9:27, "...but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" Did Paul not have faith? Did Paul not have the grace of God? I hope he did being that he was spoken to by Jesus, became an apostle, and is the author of a major portion of Sacred Scripture. How can this faithful man say that he might be disqualified if salvation was already granted him? Salvation was possible to the entire world due to the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. But it was not guaranteed on an individual basis.


We agree that one must be called first by God. But once called and given free, unmerited grace we have the freedom (granted by God) to cooperate with this or reject it. If cooperative, we can then be moved by the Holy Spirit and merit for ourselves and others graces needed for our sanctification [CCC 2010]

__________________
maximus

"There are not over a hundred people...who hate the Roman Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church" -Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

"Man is not merely an evolution but rather a revolution." G.K. Chesterton

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried." G.K. Chesterton