Originally Posted by gansao

Neither did Rand.She had a point of view and wrote novels to express them as well as expounding on them directly in other books and interviews.
Einstein believed in god so according to you he was the only one out of the two that believed in fairy tales let alone write them

Baloney! Ayn Rand was totally immersed in fantasy.

Originally Posted by gansao

More chance than 1984 and Animal farm.Did you think Orwell wrote a book about clever piggies?

Good grief! You think you can grasp the concept of piggies as a metaphor for fascists?

Or, do I have to explain to you what a "metaphor" is?

Originally Posted by Tabbi

You first Simone sweetie. Why don't you get over your obsession with everything relating to white men and racism and conspiracies to keep minorities in a state of perpetual poverty and helplessness. Stop worshiping Obama and liberals and think for yourself for a change.

My goodness, Tabbi. That was certainly a quick response. Do you live in here?

Don't you have a life outside of these precincts?

Originally Posted by simone

Good grief! You think you can grasp the concept of piggies as a metaphor for fascists?

Or, do I have to explain to you what a "metaphor" is?

Please read the previous posts and try to keep up Simone.
Also the book was a biting satire about totalitarianism not about facism in particular nor were the pigs metaphors for fascists...sigh

Originally Posted by simone

Baloney! Ayn Rand was totally immersed in fantasy.

No Simone , man hating liberals that gets excited over mysogynist presidents and misogynist brothers of presidents are immersed in fantasy......
TBH I think people who still believe in the possibilty of a truly socialist society are far more immersed in fantasy than an objectivist

Originally Posted by simone

Those "illegal immigrants" are going to give a boost to our economy and our community and create more jobs with their hard work and worthiness.

People being willing to work doesn't create jobs Simone sweetie, companies and organizations create jobs as a manner of managing resources. People being willing to work is what fills jobs. Seriously how old are you? If people created jobs simply be being willing to work nobody would ever be unemployed and wouldn't be living on the streets.

If you want to be strictly legal, we're all pretty much "illegal immigrants" because we slammed in here after the First People here had created a pretty reasonable way of life and we slaughtered them and stole their lands and essentially shat upon this land with our greedy plunder for resources.

Yeah so what? White guilt means nothing in this matter. So just go ahead and quit blaming Bush for everything that's wrong.

Most of those "illegal immigrants" were here before us and have the genes of the First People in their blood. We are the thieving, murderous aliens.

So you're claiming responsibility for being an invading parasite?

Originally Posted by simone

By virtue of "being here" they are criminal?

Yes Simone sweetie they're criminals simply by being here. They crossed the border from their own country and entered this country without documentation or authorization in disregard for immigration laws. It's a grand level version of criminal trespassing.

When they've been here for centuries before we arrived?

The people crossing over from Mexico haven't been here for centuries. A 16 year old hasn't been around for centuries before anybody else arrived. If these illegal immigrants had truly been in America as long as you'd say then all second and subsequent generations of family would become American citizens by default by being born here.

When they were not restricted by the borders of nations that the aliens created and the First People roamed and hunted and traded all over the regions of North and South America and the islands of the Caribbean?

Times change so get with the program. Immigration policy was enacted when government took power. You remember government, right? That big organization that you'd like to see expanded to an extent it has greater say over what people do in their day to day lives and with greater oversight and regulatory authority. You can't praise government and decry its policies at the same time if you wanna be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Because that's what the other countries are for. Let them deal with their own people instead of exporting them to other countries illegally.

This planet is for living on, let people do as they wish.

Originally Posted by Accipiter

Have you ever seen anything even remotely resembling what happens in Atlas Shrugged happening in the real world?

All the time.

Originally Posted by simone

There is nothing at all wrong with "self-interest."

Does that mean you are selfish?

Originally Posted by simone

However, it is very strange to see Ayn Rand portray herself as an arbiter of morality.

She doesn't.

Originally Posted by simone

She was totally ruled by self-interest, with little regard for the interests and rights of others. She routinely cuckolded her long-suffering husband.

Little regard for the interest is not the same thing as little regard for the rights.

Originally Posted by simone

She hated the disabled:
Ayn Rand Thinks He's a Parasite, But My Brother Kevin Contributes Greatly to Our Society | Visions | AlterNet
?Strange that, in view of the fact that Rand herself in her last years was a helpless "parasite," kept alive by my tax dollars.

Lol

Originally Posted by gansao

Please read the previous posts and try to keep up Simone.
Also the book was a biting satire about totalitarianism not about facism in particular nor were the pigs metaphors for fascists...sigh

Sure you aren't just being obtuse?

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Yes Simone sweetie they're criminals simply by being here. They crossed the border from their own country and entered this country without documentation or authorization in disregard for immigration laws. It's a grand level version of criminal trespassing.

No, the government does not own this country people have individual claims and we allow people to move around. To make claims just to keep people from freely moving about the world makes a mockery of any entitlement to claiming land at all.

Originally Posted by gansao

More chance than 1984 and Animal farm.Did you think Orwell wrote a book about clever piggies?

I am not asking you to compare it to anything.

What I am asking you is have you ever seen anything even remotely resembling what happens in Atlas Shrugged happening in the real world?

Originally Posted by Accipiter

What I am asking you is have you ever seen anything even remotely resembling what happens in Atlas Shrugged happening in the real world?

Yes. Is Atlas Shrugging? Businesses not Hiring | SENTRY JOURNAL

The primary plot elements of Atlas shrugged:
Government regulation and redistribution destroying the economy.
Industrialist, investors, and inventors increasingly seen as the cause of most of societies problems.
Said individuals and organizations falling apart, giving up, or being paralyzed by uncertainty and fear.

I see taxes going up, I see stimulus bills, I see people asking why no one on wall street has gone to jail; and I hear that the 'rich' would rather just build themselves golden parachutes rather than hire and expand.

Originally Posted by Freedom

This planet is for living on, let people do as they wish.

Laws exist for reasons. People can't just freely do as they wish because they wish to do it, that's how the real world works.

No, the government does not own this country people have individual claims and we allow people to move around. To make claims just to keep people from freely moving about the world makes a mockery of any entitlement to claiming land at all.

What makes you think that we Americans want foreigners coming into our country illegally and depriving us of jobs that we could fill ourselves, taking the money that they get and sending it back to their own country and destabilizing our economy in the process?

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Laws exist for reasons.

Yes, to ensure moral behavior by protecting rights resulting in justice which allows society to exist without violence and war. If a law is ever divorced from any objective rational moral principle it has a reason to exist no more.

People can't just freely do as they wish because they wish to do it, that's how the real world works.

I agree that in the real world people aren't free, but they should be. To do what one wishes is the very definition of liberty. They don't need an excuse the only thing they need to do is respect the liberty of others.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

What makes you think that we Americans want foreigners coming into our country illegally and depriving us of jobs that we could fill ourselves, taking the money that they get and sending it back to their own country and destabilizing our economy in the process?

What makes you think you Americans have a right to decide who comes and goes? What gives you the right tell an employer he can't hire foreigners or foreigners that they can't accept a job? You are not part of that transaction just because you hoped to get the job yourself.

Originally Posted by Freedom

I agree that in the real world people aren't free, but they should be. To do what one wishes is the very definition of liberty. They don't need an excuse the only thing they need to do is respect the liberty of others.

Remember that the next time some vato decides to break into your home and steal your stuff because you own it and he doesn't and that upsets him to no end.

What makes you think you Americans have a right to decide who comes and goes? What gives you the right tell an employer he can't hire foreigners or foreigners that they can't accept a job? You are not part of that transaction just because you hoped to get the job yourself.

Just as you said, liberty. We don't need an excuse for why we want to keep foreigners from coming to this country to seek employment while still retaining citizenship ties to their country, it just has to be what we want to do.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Remember that the next time some vato decides to break into your home and steal your stuff because you own it and he doesn't and that upsets him to no end.

Alright.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Just as you said, liberty. We don't need an excuse for why we want to keep foreigners from coming to this country to seek employment while still retaining citizenship ties to their country, it just has to be what we want to do.

There is no right to violate the rights of others, liberty is getting to decide what to do with yourself; not other people.