Originally Posted by Zardoz

Borderline Personality Disorder.

Does anyone here have any experience dealing with a friend, family member or loved one with this problem?

As a matter of fact I do. One of the only disorders where actually helping a person could end up hurting them...but not helping hurts them as well.

It is a harsh disorder normally caused by abusive parent(s).

Originally Posted by Steeeeve

As a matter of fact I do. One of the only disorders where actually helping a person could end up hurting them...but not helping hurts them as well.

It is a harsh disorder normally caused by abusive parent(s).

That's so far my experience. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
And, being a person who's been VERY intricatly tied to this person for a LONG time...it's taking its toll on me too.

I've been the (latest) victim of one of their 'distortion campaigns' for the past 5 years. And, despite actually having evidence to contradict their ceaseless and baseless allegations (as well as logic that would normally make their claims seem silly to anyone who thinks about it), I've had a hell of a time dispelling their claims to 3rd parties.

I never knew it was caused by abusive family. That may explain why several counselors have asked about her parents.
She has suffered from other things that I've heard of but, she ALWAYS portrays herself as a 'victim' and has defended her parents (other than in her journals) to all others.

I've been trying to learn more about it and recently picked up the book 'Walking on Eggshells' as well as joined a forum board about it to learn more.

There is a 'little' comfort that I'm not the only one who's dealt with someone with this ailment...but, I've had difficulty just coping with it.
And, I'm not in an easy position to just walk away.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Zardoz

That's so far my experience. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
And, being a person who's been VERY intricatly tied to this person for a LONG time...it's taking its toll on me too.

I've been the (latest) victim of one of their 'distortion campaigns' for the past 5 years. And, despite actually having evidence to contradict their ceaseless and baseless allegations (as well as logic that would normally make their claims seem silly to anyone who thinks about it), I've had a hell of a time dispelling their claims to 3rd parties.

Ha, I've been there...nothing like accounting for your whereabouts each day for 6 months. Your best bet is to be as far away from this person as you can unless that is not possible..ie family or something. If this is the case there are special programs for this disorder. I studied this in college for a few semesters since it interested me so much (borderline that is). I probably coulda minored in psychology looking back at it haha. Oh well, my father is a psychologist and he won't get near a borderline patient. That is just lawsuit waiting to happen.

I never knew it was caused by abusive family. That may explain why several counselors have asked about her parents.

In general this is true. Oddly enough the borderline person is trying to get a predictable pattern by acting out as they do. So if you treat them with care, they generally aren't used to that so they cling and think you are the best thing since sliced bread. Next thing you know they turn on you. This is because they are used to the abandonment they normally got from mom or dad. This fear comes up and they basically have as self-fulfilling thing going on. I'm guessing one parent probably has been verbally abusive to the person and then buys that person stuff to make up for it. This is what creates that inconsistent relationship.

She has suffered from other things that I've heard of but, she ALWAYS portrays herself as a 'victim' and has defended her parents (other than in her journals) to all others.

Right, the one good thing about Borderlines is they act out in extremely similar ways to other borderline girls making it easy to see if you know what to look for. This girl as probably attempted suicide but only to get attention. The girl I knew defended her mother all day. Again, goes back to abandonment.

I've been trying to learn more about it and recently picked up the book 'Walking on Eggshells' as well as joined a forum board about it to learn more.

There are a few movies that portray it as well, ha.

There is a 'little' comfort that I'm not the only one who's dealt with someone with this ailment...but, I've had difficulty just coping with it.
And, I'm not in an easy position to just walk away.

You can PM me about it anytime and I'd be happy to email as well. You may not be in an easy position to walk away but that is the best idea. The other is to have a limit set for this person. It really makes them mad but you have no choice. Don't let them praise you and don't let them make you feel good about anything you do for them. If you don't do that, you'll be sorry.

Here are some other things this person may have done:

• Had sex with many people saying they love them and then turning on them...sometimes they accuse the person of rape.
• Substance abuse
• obviously tried to be self-harming
• really unstable self-image "I'm fat" type of thing...then you say "no, you are pretty" which is about the worst thing you coulda said.
• Being a victim randomly often times saying they need you right away

If she is under the age of 25 and so are you I bet I could tell you exactly what you and her have a relationship with scary accuracy. Normally symptoms tend to fade off after age 25 for some reason but this isn't always the case.

Good luck my friend, you're gonna need it. I know I'm just an internet person but I've had more experience with Borderline than I ever wanted to and I know a hell of a lot about it. I'll try to dig up some of the resources I have from many moons ago and see if my father has anything new in the journals he reads.

Originally Posted by Zardoz

I've been the (latest) victim of one of their 'distortion campaigns' for the past 5 years. And, despite actually having evidence to contradict their ceaseless and baseless allegations (as well as logic that would normally make their claims seem silly to anyone who thinks about it), I've had a hell of a time dispelling their claims to 3rd parties.

It sound like you are being accused of some indiscretion by a younger female who is being supported by others in the family since you referred to "their distortion campaign." If you actually have evidence to disprove their claims and you feel their accusations are ruining your reputation, then do what the law allows for and sue her for libel/defamation of character and allow a court to settle the matter publicly. This will return your reputation in the community, unless you're concerned about the outcome, then you should hope they never make a legal issue of it.

Originally Posted by Archangel

It sound like you are being accused of some indiscretion by a younger female who is being supported by others in the family since you referred to "their distortion campaign." If you actually have evidence to disprove their claims and you feel their accusations are ruining your reputation, then do what the law allows for and sue her for libel/defamation of character and allow a court to settle the matter publicly. This will return your reputation in the community, unless you're concerned about the outcome, then you should hope they never make a legal issue of it.

WOW!!!! DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS. This is probably the worst thing you can do. You can always tell someone who hasn't dealt with a Borderline.

The very best thing that can happen from you suing is you are out lawyers fees. All you want is to give a boderline the platform to be a victim.

I mean, just wow. Way off AA...way off.

Originally Posted by Steeeeve

WOW!!!! DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS. This is probably the worst thing you can do. You can always tell someone who hasn't dealt with a Borderline.

The very best thing that can happen from you suing is you are out lawyers fees. All you want is to give a boderline the platform to be a victim.

I mean, just wow. Way off AA...way off.

You assume the woman being referred to by our resident mocker, Zardoz "IS actually someone with a borderline personality disorder." She may just be someone with a valid grievance against him who he is attempting to paint as mentally deficient. After all, he admitted that she isn't alone in her beliefs but us being supported by others who believe her claims.

Also, if she is mentally ill, how else can he bring her symptoms to light other than proving her assertions are completely fabricated and figments of her imagination? That is why forcing the issue in a court of law would not only redeem his reputation which she is ruining if these accusations are false and will simultaneously get her medical help she needs.

After all, one aspect of personality disorder is a chemical imbalance as this link makes clear.

Chemical Imbalance
According to the Mayo Clinic, some brain chemicals that regulate mood (such as serotonin) may be out of balance in borderline personality disorder, which may contribute to its cause.

What Causes Borderline Personality Disorder? | eHow.com

A chemical imbalance can only be treated with drug therapy so if in fact her accusations are fallacious, the only way to serve her needs are to challenge her accusations and prove them false since he says he has the evidence to do just that. Also, why are you so quick to accept his claim of her alleged illness when he himself said this?

[Zardoz said:] I've been the (latest) victim of one of their 'distortion campaigns' for the past 5 years. And, despite actually having evidence to contradict their ceaseless and baseless allegations (as well as logic that would normally make their claims seem silly to anyone who thinks about it), I've had a hell of a time dispelling their claims to 3rd parties.

In 2 sentences he himself admits 4 times "they" as in multiple people support this girls allegations against him. So why do you just assume we are dealing with a mentally disturbed person? Wouldn't those people closest to her clearly recognize that she is sick if that is the case?

Excuse my skepticism, but with such vagaries as Zardoz has shared here, I can't help but think of how the criminal always uses the defense of indicting and blaming the victim in some way in order to attempt to exonerate themselves of any wrong doing. So before dismissing my opinion as way off, first prove we are actually dealing with a girl with borderline personality disorder and not a guilty person who is attempting to blame the victim and is seeking your insights to do it with.

Originally Posted by Archangel

You assume the woman being referred to by our resident mocker, Zardoz "IS actually someone with a borderline personality disorder." She may just be someone with a valid grievance against him who he is attempting to paint as mentally deficient. After all, he admitted that she isn't alone in her beliefs but us being supported by others who believe her claims.

You would not present it as he did if this is the case. And it really doesn't matter if we assume what he said is true my advice holds true. Frankly it is his life..not yours or mine and we aren't deciding this.

Also, if she is mentally ill, how else can he bring her symptoms to light other than proving her assertions are completely fabricated and figments of her imagination? That is why forcing the issue in a court of law would not only redeem his reputation which she is ruining if these accusations are false and will simultaneously get her medical help she needs.

You are wrong and a lot of other things that I cannot say on this forum.

Why don't you stick with talking about things you know.

Archie has obviously never come across the use of 'they' to represent a single person, rather than plural people.

For example:

"I went to see the doctor last week."
"What did they say?"

All Archie is trying to do here, is make an accusation against Zardoz by interpreting his words in a way that suits his own aganda.

Who would have thunk it?

Their is 'singular' unless you want to include a small handful of others (minors) who get caught up in the psychosis.

You know Archie, people who are willing to believe one-sided testimony that has no supporting evidence and aren't willing to allow the other person the opportunity of speaking in their own defense.
People like the BPD's children, parents and close friends.

In this case, she often cycles through BBF's pretty easily. One month, their (typically only friend in the world) friend is the greatest and has no flaws (perfect marriage, faith and practices, great kids, job...etc) and the next, they don't want to see them or made amends over a disagreement.


And, yes AA, I HAVE considered lawsuits to try to bring the matter to court where I would have a chance to defend myself and hopefully either have the matter ended...or to have the (hopefully) sane 3rd parties actually see the erratic patterns this person has had in life.
BUT, so far, I have tried to take a high road. Show mercy, compassion and forgiveness. To be optimisitc that things would become better. In effect, to show 'Christian' behavior to this person.
And, IF this person is so mentally ill, I don't want to 'attack' her or give her any food for her to use against me.

But, as time has gone on, I've been foreced more and more to deal with it.

My pressing concern is that children are under her and I have great belief that she's engaging in 'abuse' against them. Well, not belief but from her own journal entries, her current statements (where she tries to put a spin on it to make her actions sound non-abusive ie 'I slammed my son against the wall because his shirt caught fire and I was trying to put it out'), and the statements of others.

She just turned 39 and I believe she's 'reset' to 'charm mode'.



On a related and ironic twist, one of my friends admitted last night that she has BPD. But, in her case, she's aware of it and desires to work on getting help.
The relation to me, well, she lives in denial and professes that nothing is wrong with her. It's all everyone elses fault for every woe.

I tend to be vague as I am not a type of person who airs every detail about my life. The only reason I've opened up here is because, as I've said...it's become increasingly difficult to cope and I really don't know how to deal with such a person.

Do I seek to 'force' help onto them? Do I call CPS? Do I seek legal action?
How do I deal with her family members who blindly believe her?
There have been several counselors involved in the past but, I believe that whenever they start to see that the 'blame' lays with her and her stories don't hold up to critical scrutiny, she bails. She's just sought to find 'professonals' to lend credibility to her claims.

An example of seeking the style of manipulation,
Calling the police to make a report when I wasn't around and had witnesses that I wasn't around her. Police print out a 'call/run' report stating they showed up and what the call was about...no investigation.'
She then runs around showing this type of thing as 'proof' to her allegations.
Or, I'm at a store with others. I arrived there 1st. She then shows up, approaches me and starts chatting. Later, I hear from 3rd parties that she claims I was 'stalking' her on that day.

And on and on and on.


So, yes, Archie, I have thought to seek legal action.
I have sought to detach myself from them and remain sane. And I definately make every attempt NOT to give them any fodder to use later against me. As Steve said...the best advice for dealing with these types is to RUN.
But, with this person, it's very hard to do so.

One of the main things I see happening with taking this to court is; even if I win, she'd say I lied, manipulated the legal system ('cause he's sooo damn smart) and was only doing this to seek revenge on her and further victimize her.

Thanks.

-Z

Originally Posted by Zardoz

And, yes AA, I HAVE considered lawsuits to try to bring the matter to court where I would have a chance to defend myself and hopefully either have the matter ended...or to have the (hopefully) sane 3rd parties actually see the erratic patterns this person has had in life.
BUT, so far, I have tried to take a high road. Show mercy, compassion and forgiveness. To be optimisitc that things would become better. In effect, to show 'Christian' behavior to this person.
And, IF this person is so mentally ill, I don't want to 'attack' her or give her any food for her to use against me.

Don't do it!!!!!! For everything I have said on this forum that is the wisest advice I can give you.

My pressing concern is that children are under her and I have great belief that she's engaging in 'abuse' against them. Well, not belief but from her own journal entries, her current statements (where she tries to put a spin on it to make her actions sound non-abusive ie 'I slammed my son against the wall because his shirt caught fire and I was trying to put it out'), and the statements of others.

She just turned 39 and I believe she's 'reset' to 'charm mode'.

She has kids? That's not good. If she is 39 and still acting like that then really your only option is treatment using drugs and therapy. Lucky the last decade or so has really been beneficial to helping those with BPD.

I tend to be vague as I am not a type of person who airs every detail about my life. The only reason I've opened up here is because, as I've said...it's become increasingly difficult to cope and I really don't know how to deal with such a person.

No need to give details...I don't even know you and I probably already know

Do I seek to 'force' help onto them? Do I call CPS? Do I seek legal action?

no, no, and no. You will do more harm than good. CPS can't stop it because the kids will deny the parent is abusive and normally physical abuse is rare or disguised.

How do I deal with her family members who blindly believe her?

Not much you can do about that. I wouldn't worry about it.

There have been several counselors involved in the past but, I believe that whenever they start to see that the 'blame' lays with her and her stories don't hold up to critical scrutiny, she bails. She's just sought to find 'professonals' to lend credibility to her claims.

Well duh! For someone with abandonment issues and needing to be a victim to get love the last thing they want is someone not to give them that attention. A BPD person will have tons of therapists until they realize they do have a problem and that switching therapist is a symptom of it. Really there isn't much you can do if this person doesn't think a problem exists...she probably goes to the therapist to seek that "love" she needs.

An example of seeking the style of manipulation,
Calling the police to make a report when I wasn't around and had witnesses that I wasn't around her. Police print out a 'call/run' report stating they showed up and what the call was about...no investigation.'
She then runs around showing this type of thing as 'proof' to her allegations.
Or, I'm at a store with others. I arrived there 1st. She then shows up, approaches me and starts chatting. Later, I hear from 3rd parties that she claims I was 'stalking' her on that day.

And on and on and on.

Haha, I bet if I told you my stories of me dealing with BPD you'd think it was all the same person.

One of the main things I see happening with taking this to court is; even if I win, she'd say I lied, manipulated the legal system ('cause he's sooo damn smart) and was only doing this to seek revenge on her and further victimize her.

Obviously. At least you understand how BPD works more.

Originally Posted by smiley

Archie has obviously never come across the use of 'they' to represent a single person, rather than plural people.

For example:

"I went to see the doctor last week."
"What did they say?"

All Archie is trying to do here, is make an accusation against Zardoz by interpreting his words in a way that suits his own aganda.

Who would have thunk it?

Regarding the bolded: You're right, in proper english, I never have come across this phenomenon. "They or their" is a reference to a group, or more than one in proper english. And even though he waffles, even Zardoz has admitted that "their" did refer to others even if he does excuse them by saying they are minors with some shared psychosis.

As for your example, it is as ignorant as your argument. It would be proper to say I went to the doctors office last week, they said I was fine. But if you said I went to my doctor last week, they said I was fine, any english teacher would ask you who this "they" you speak of is. And if you can't see that for the sake of taking sides on a debate forum, you just prove how slanted your perspective is for all to see. And my arguments to Zardoz stands until he can explain the actual particulars of the situation he is in since he raised the issue in the first place.

It does him no good to bring up some vague yet nonspecific accusation that's being leveled against him by a non specific female as he specifically asks us to believe she has some psychosis without sharing the details of the situation. It just throws up all kinds of red flags to any rational person which is why I alone seem to recognize that fact so far.

Originally Posted by Archangel

Regarding the bolded: You're right, in proper english, I never have come across this phenomenon. "They or their" is a reference to a group, or more than one in proper english. And even though he waffles, even Zardoz has admitted that they did refer to others even if he does excuse them by saying they are minors with some shared psychosis.

As for your example, it is as ignorant as your argument. It would be proper to say I went to the doctors office last week, they said I was fine. But if you said I went to my doctor last week, they said I was fine, any english teacher would ask you who this "they" you speak of is. And if you can't see that for the sake of taking sides on a debate forum, you just prove how slanted your perspective is for all to see. And my arguments to Zardoz stands until he can explain the actual particulars of the situation he is in since he raised the issue in the first place.

It does him no good to bring up some vague yet nonspecific accusation that's being leveled against him by a non specific female as he specifically asks us to believe she has some psychosis without sharing the details of the situation. It just throws up all kinds of red flags to any rational person which is why I alone seem to recognize that fact so far.

Well, Archie, you've come across the use of they/their in the singular form now. No excuses next time.

Originally Posted by smiley

Well, Archie, you've come across the use of they/their in the singular form now. No excuses next time.

Uh, no, actually I haven't, not in proper english anyway. You just claiming it to be so isn't exactly evidence of anything at all. Especially since your defense of such foolishness is, well, just ignorant.

Originally Posted by Archangel

Uh, no, actually I haven't, not in proper english anyway. You just claiming it to be so isn't exactly evidence of anything at all. Especially since your defense of such foolishness is, well, just ignorant.

The use of the singular 'they' is most common when either the number of people or the gender of the person is unknown.

It's easy enough to look up.

No more excuses Archie.