mutz,

In this fascinating article the casualty estimates are confirmed along with an illuminating discussion on the hindrances faced by the proposed allied invasion. JP, you will find enjoy this immensely.

Fascinating!

And remember, this deals only with the invasion from the south by MacArthur.

The 10th Mountain Division were in the Aleutians poised to invade through Hokkaido, and their potential casualties are never mentioned in the article. These veterans of Monte Cassino and the Apennines would also have incurred massive numbers of dead and wounded on their way south to meet MacArthur's troops.

The practical reasons were that the world was war weary, anything that would stop the war was welcolmed.

Most of the ordinary men and women in the allied nations did not see why it would be worth losing one mor elofe of their loved ones if the war could be finished quickly and decisively.

So vaporizing women and children is justified if it saves soldiers? Taking revenge on women and children for the atrocities of soldiers is justified? I believe the fact that the Japanese aren't white was the deciding factor in the decision to drop the bomb. Call me crazy.

__________________
"I am to eliminate all free radicals."
- James Bond

You are crazy. (Please recall we were instructed to do that...call you crazy.)

I think the race factor had little to do with the decision to drop. Had it been Germany (white people) still holding on to a tenacious defense of their homeland with estimates of millions of deaths by conventional warfare being required to silence them, the decision would have been the same...use the big bomb...kill fewer people...stop the war.

__________________
What you say can and will be used against you.

This does open a different question, though:

Would the US have used nuclear weapons against the Nazi Germany, too, if it had not already been defeated?

Crazy you are.

besides what exactly is the difference if they are vapourised in a firestorm or blown to pieces by high explosive.

Remember this was war between nations not a nice pretty little battle between two groups of soldiers set in a remote desert area.

Think about what happened during the war.

sinjin,

So vaporizing women and children is justified if it saves soldiers?

What would you have done to bring about the war's end?

Maybe a naval blockade so that the women and children you care so much for could die slowly of starvation?

What's the PLAN, Stan?

Japan had already offered to surrender prior to the dropping of the A-bombs. And Truman knew about it.

Some sources can be found compiled in an article here.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rogers/rogers205.html

So why did they drop the bomb then, if it isn't for the reasons propagandised postwar, about "saving lives"? Largely for the impact it would have on Russian policy and the geopolitical situation postwar. Would the Japanese surrender to Russia? Stalin had indicated they might. Would the Russians continue occupying some of western europe? Maybe, if the bomb and the willingness to use it wasn't there to threaten them with.

There was no concern about bringing the war to an end, Japan knew it had lost, and was preparing to surrender. But continue believing that all those people died for humanitarian rather than political reasons if it helps you sleep better at night.

__________________
He or she who supports a State organized in a military way – whether directly or indirectly – participates in sin. Each man takes part in the sin by contributing to the maintenance of the State by paying taxes.

~ Gandhi

They had not offered to surrender in any meaningful way. Indeed they were rapidly strengthening thei defences.

Um, I was kind of sure the Japanese completely rejected the Potsdam ultimatum? IE, no surrender?

There is, however a bit of truth here: the problem with late surrender was that the allies demanded an unconditional surrender, while the Japanese were trying to achieve a conditional one. That's supposed to have preventer an earlier surrender.

Why not? I'm not a military strategist so I'd be TOMA if I speculated on military options. Are you suggesting you'd rather be vaporized than take you chances in a blockaded country?

__________________
"I am to eliminate all free radicals."
- James Bond

Very little. I don't support carpet bombing civilians either.
Right, the Pacific is sparsely populated islands until you approach Asia.
Maybe we don't need to make omlettes to be a superpower.

With respect to my claim of racism figuring in I would submit that the dehumanizing of the Japanese was very different than the way Germans were portrayed. We were fighting the Nazis in Europe, we never charaterized the German people as sub-human. We decribed the Japanese people first as "Japs" and later as "the Jap", along with monkeys, rats and other terms of endearment. IMO the American people would not have approved of an A-bomb drop on a European country when some feeling of kinship persisted. Not so with Japan despite numerous immigrants. Well, you know how we treated these U.S. citizens.

We all understand who writes the history now, don't we?

Maybe I'm wrong but I think many don't appreciate just how racist we were in those days.

__________________
"I am to eliminate all free radicals."
- James Bond

sinjin,

Specificly those from a socio-religious cult who cannot accept 21st century multicultural reality and live in a world guided by the lore and superstions from the past such as the concept of good and evil spirits as interperted by their mangods.

If you really think "those days" are so very differfent from "these days", just lok at how much not-so-thinly veiled racism is involved with the immigration question.

Were our new residents Swedes, you can be sure we would not be hearing a peep from the xenophobes.

I do believe these days are indeed different than those days although racism in America is still an issue. I agree that objections to large numbers of Latin American immigrants while cast a a legal question is in fact racially motivated.

Could I request that you get a handle on the quote feature as it is difficult to follow your posts and you appear to be attributing statements to me that are not mine.

__________________
"I am to eliminate all free radicals."
- James Bond

It may very well be so with some people. People getting miffed about latinos taking their jobs and ruining whole neighborhoods might develop a bit of racism. With me, it is strictly a legal question. If you are here illegally, you are an illegal alien.

The same thought drives my belief in exercising the death penalty. It is the law. Either use it or take it off the books. If a man is sentenced to death, he should be killed.

__________________
What you say can and will be used against you.