Are you actually suggesting that Pelosi's bill isn't also about single payer? Otherwise known as the government option? The fact is that it is 2000 pages of convoluted garble which has yet to be completely interpreted by anyone, much less the authors of it. That way they can wait till it passes and then interpret it in ways which we the people haven't even imagined yet.

This bill should be 20 pages in length and simply define how the government will simplify the system rather than make it so complicated, a room full of lawyers can't figure it out in a weeks time.

The fact is antonia, your reality is based on lies and self delusions. And your links are nothing more than dishonest propaganda and emotionally contrived drivel.

At this point, if the socialists get their way, I have no idea what the future holds for the generations to come. Or for our country for that matter. I believe that if the Obama agenda succeeds the US has seen its best days and will cease to be an economic or military superpower before this XXXXX leaves office.

I have taught my children to be self sufficient. Not to depend on the nanny state to supply their health needs. Everything you believe about the party line regarding socialized healthcare is a complete and total lie, but that FACT will never occur to you until you find yourself and those you love are slaves to the state with rationed care and even then you might be too stupid to appreciate that you supported the system which will destroy you in the end.

Absolutely!!! They are total and complete failures in every way possible. Economically and medically they serve the system more than the citizens as our system does currently. The only flaw in the american healthcare system is that the government is as involved in it as it currently is. Preventing inter- state sale of health insurance is the most obvious and basic way to limit competition and guarantee higher prices, simply due to the fact that the larger the group, the lower the premiums.

And what is incredible is that anyone and everyone knows that is true about basic capitalism. The more people who buy a product, the lower the cost. It's basic supply and demand. Yet here we have these mental midgets in DC who have prevented Insurance companies from trading across state lines. Weird huh? If they really wanted to lower costs for you and me.

Well that's what the article you just disparaged as propaganda says. Eric Masa (D-NY), a single payer supporter, stated, "At the highest level this bill will enshrine in law the monopolistic powers of the private health insurance industry. There's no other way to look at it."

30 pages in length is good enough for me. As in this one:

http://www.pnhp.org/docs/nhi_bill_final1.pdf

Do you have the courage to put your concepts into action by supporting single payer legislation, or are you too entrenched in your blind Republican partisanship?

Does that you mean you disagree with Eric Masa?

This kind of slanderous chanting you engage in, without any reference to the articles and what they say, and evidencing with your posts that you haven't even read them, is exactly what propaganda posting is.

I didn't ask you about your children, but your grandchildren, and their children, and their children's children.

How do you know so certainly they will not wind up to become another one of the growing fatalities among Americans who are unable to get health care when needed?

It sounds, to me, like you are the one living in a pile of lies. OldSarge.

Aren't you on Medicare?

Not on your life. And how about you describe "single payer" in your own words for us so we know we are on the same page regarding what it means, ok?

Interesting answer, since it wouldn't be.

Read the bill.

What's interesting is that you would just assume that I would sign up for Medicare when I'm not even 60 yet, in perfect health, and have no need for government assistance.

Which one? There are at least 5 floating around out there between the two houses and they all say different things which end up screwing us in different yet equally oppressive ways. Health Care Issues: Why So Many Health Care Bills? - CBS News So since you claim to be the resident expert who isn't just spewing your liberal talking points in your demand for this elusive "single payer" proposal, but is promoting real and actually beneficial policies in it, then how about you define what it stands for in real terms? Are you capable of doing that antonia? Or will you continue to just parrot undefined concepts which tell us nothing about what these fascists really intend to impose on us? I mean, why should we trust them if they must govern through the promotion of misinformation and subterfuge?

And if you are truly a loyal, interested and objective american who just cares about being tolled the unvarnished truth and not a political plant here for the sake of promoting Obama's agenda, then why don't you care about these information gaps in this administrations dishonest dealings with this issue and the american people? You betray your own credibility by ignoring the obvious facts while continuing to blindly promote the leftist lies, talking points and propaganda at all cost while ignoring any and all conflicting evidence which is honestly posted. If the truth really interested you antonia, you would at least investigate the inconsistencies which concern the majority of americans regarding this oppressive and insane legislation.

So describe single payer if you can. Explain what it really is calling for and convince us it isn't a scam bill to place us in bondage to an ever more oppressive government. Can you do that, or are you just a propagator of propaganda as I have been saying all along? A true empty suit who has no real understanding of that which you spew around here. Can you do that antonia?

Then going back to the first post on this thread, what is your opinion of the following Medicare recipients in our Congress who are accepting the aide of the nanny state but opposing a public option?

We Have Ours

Oh dear. Did you lose track of the conversation so quickly. Perhaps your health is not as perfect as you claim.

For the third time on this thread, this one:

We Have Ours

Read the bill or stop talking about things you don't know about. Or pretending you know about things that you are completely ignorant of.

Are you trying to show an inconsistency or something? If so, you are going to fail at.

Getting a little testy?

Do you children have a million in the bank in case of catastrophic illness?

Everything you believe about the party line regarding profit driven healthcare is a complete and total lie, but that FACT will never occur to you until you find yourself and those you love are slaves to the insurance companies with rationed care and even then you might be too stupid to appreciate that you supported the system which will destroy you in the end.

Do you have any evidence to substantiate your categorical assertion?

Isn't 40 million uninsured a flaw? Isn't execessive cost a flaw?

__________________
We're #37, We're the USA

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/16/781839/-Late-afternoon-early-evening-open-thread

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<td><img src="http://www.4forums.com/political/images/editor/separator.gif" width="6" heigneed of emergency care who get turned away from hospitals?

And where in that non working link to wiener.house.gov/ is this info that you posted in your OP?

Bull pucky!!! another lie from the leftist promoter of socialism. Your link doesn't go to any clear explanation of the "single payer" option at all which is what the question was about. And nice job attempting to avoid the reality of my question which shows that the deems are just throwing 5 different bills up against the wall in the hope that they can slip one by us. You ignore completely the point of every question I raise because you are lying and deceiving at every turn with no real facts to support the claims you are making here. Why is that antonia if the truth is what you care about?

Oh wait, you don't actually dare to say that you are seeking to discover the truth, do you. All you are here doing is lying and promoting your socialist agenda which will lead to rationing of medical care for all americans. And you will never produce real evidence or statistics that shows that americans who need emergency care in hospitals are EVER turned away if they say they don't have insurance. All you offer us are lies and misinformation.

So can you explain what single payer actually entails for the american people antonia? Or would actually explaining it if you can sink it since it would reveal how bad it would be for us? Or at least respond to this link honestly. http://www.aapsonline.org/brochures/singlepayer.pdf

This coming from the avoider of all points raised. If you weren't so pathetic, you would be a bad joke.

So, Ali, you are unable to read a straightforward 30 page bill, and discuss it coherently. Even after insisting that this amount of pages would qualify a bill for discussion.

You are also unable to provide your opinion on the list of Republican Congressional representatives, who accept care from the Nanny State while asserting that other Americans should not have the benefit of a public option, even when dying at rate of 45,000 people per year.

Furthermore, as the most pronounced and boastful "Christian" on this board, you are unable to take a moral position on one of the most fundamental stories in Christianity ... the man left beaten and dying by robbers on the side of the road.

What Canadians?

For what kinds of procedures?

__________________
Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you do not hurl them at me. Wafa Sultan

“War is an American way to teach geography,” British soldier

War is sweet to those who have not tasted it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach. – Pindar

Are you in a bomb shelter hidden away from life? Don't you watch any news other than Tingles and Oberdork?

__________________
The left lost the ability, use logic or know what truth is with the embrace of moral relativism. Thus you get moral equivalence between acts like detaining terrorists and cutting off heads of innocents.
If lawmakers and anti-gun groups were serious about reducing or ending gun crimes, they would turn their wrath toward the criminals. As it is, their efforts are not the solution to gun crimes they are part of the problem.
Even if you gave liberals the answers on an ethics exam, they’d fail.

How about rich Canadian politicians.....and breast cancer?

__________________
"The problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."
- Margaret Thatcher

"We had the machine scared and scrambling, and for them it is just the beginning of an election year filled with surprises. They will be challenged again and again across this country. When there's trouble in Massachusetts, there's trouble everywhere -- and now they know it." Senator Scott Brown (R MA)

Bill Steigerwald : Uh-oh, Canada - Townhall.com
Health Care BS - Canada?s Ten-Month Waiting List for Maternity Beds
Canadians visit US to get care
Canadians face 16-week wait for surgery: Report
Canadians flocking to India for quick and efficient medical treatment
MEDTRAL NEW ZEALAND | New Zealand's Medtral offers affordable alternative to Western Canadians seeking out-of-country health care
The Epoch Times | Canadians Seeking Medical Treatment in the Developing World
Canada - Drug Detox Program | Treatment Center | Drug Addiction Help
17,500 Canadians Can’t Be Wrong | The Barr Code
Canadian Health Care Is So Wonderful They Send People To Detroit For Treatment | KXNet.com North Dakota News
FOX: The Disaster of Obama’s Canadian Model for Healthcare “Reform” NewsReal Blog

__________________
The left lost the ability, use logic or know what truth is with the embrace of moral relativism. Thus you get moral equivalence between acts like detaining terrorists and cutting off heads of innocents.
If lawmakers and anti-gun groups were serious about reducing or ending gun crimes, they would turn their wrath toward the criminals. As it is, their efforts are not the solution to gun crimes they are part of the problem.
Even if you gave liberals the answers on an ethics exam, they’d fail.