Originally Posted by Xenamnes

"The truth" is not something that was made use of by Professor Kellerman. There has been lengthy discussion in the past regarding how he carried out what he terms as being his "study" in a biased and scientifically unsound manner.

I do believe such untrue and defamatory claims to be libel. No one was able to prove anything against Kellermann with credible sources. There was massive copying and pasting from shady sources that made erroneous claims about his studies. Nothing that impressive from your side.

Originally Posted by Brady

With you gun nuts its shoot first and ask questions later. Thats why your 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. Oops that was grandma!

Wow! I guess your shot yourself in the foot so to speak with that post.

Originally Posted by Brady

Just saying the stats show that you gun nuts have a very poor track record when it comes to distinguishing between harmless and dangerous people. The truth hurts.

So do cops. Now what do you do?

Originally Posted by Galileo

I do believe such untrue and defamatory claims to be libel. No one was able to prove anything against Kellermann with credible sources. There was massive copying and pasting from shady sources that made erroneous claims about his studies. Nothing that impressive from your side.

We have been through this trash before and you drag it out again?

Attrition alone would be proof enough to show it is plain fear mongering and despite your false claim about households with guns falling, there were over 1.6 million guns sold already in December alone and crime and violent crime continue to fall by FBI stats after record 6 month sales with each month breaking the record. Accidental gun deaths are at an all time low. Kellerman and you have lost your battle. That alone disputes any claim you or Kellerman could possibly have. Even the 43 to 1 more likely has dropped over to 13 times more likely by die hard hypochondriacs and fear mongers. Kellerman got his own wife a .38. Think he has a death wish?

Even the stat from MAIG about an increase in officers' deaths is already a lie. Reading behind the lines of police fatalities - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

"That’s three killed by friendly fire and one who apparently died by accidental discharge of his own firearm. Plus, three more passed away apparently from complications from gunshot wounds suffered years before."

"Others who died from gunshot wounds included officers shot by wanted fugitives, armed robbers confronted in the act and frequently dangerous 'domestic disturbance' participants ..."

"Deputy Sherri Jones was killed with her own gun after being overpowered and disarmed by a prisoner ..."

"However, trust the gun prohibition lobby, led by the Brady Center and [VPC], to throw all of these fatalities in as just a statistic and blame: a) lax gun laws, b) shall-issue concealed carry statutes, and, c) gun rights in general."

Indeed!

Or do you want to allow the 43 times more likely includes the police? You are outta your goard and still the study has nothing to do with the RIGHT.

You gotta get some new b.s. man, this is old crud and you are stuck in a bubble.

MORE GUNS = LESS CRIME
Learn it, love it and live it.

Originally Posted by Doc Jones

We have been through this trash before and you drag it out again?

Attrition alone would be proof enough to show it is plain fear mongering and despite your false claim about households with guns falling, there were over 1.6 million guns sold already in December alone and crime and violent crime continue to fall by FBI stats after record 6 month sales with each month breaking the record. Accidental gun deaths are at an all time low. Kellerman and you have lost your battle. That alone disputes any claim you or Kellerman could possibly have. Even the 43 to 1 more likely has dropped over to 13 times more likely by die hard hypochondriacs and fear mongers. Kellerman got his own wife a .38. Think he has a death wish?

Even the stat from MAIG about an increase in officers' deaths is already a lie. Reading behind the lines of police fatalities - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

Indeed!

Or do you want to allow the 43 times more likely includes the police? You are outta your goard and still the study has nothing to do with the RIGHT.

You gotta get some new b.s. man, this is old crud and you are stuck in a bubble.

MORE GUNS = LESS CRIME
Learn it, love it and live it.

Here is a tid bit:
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st176.pdf

Cops are 6 times more likely to shoot the victim instead of the criminal.

If you call the cops for help, be ready to get shot.

Originally Posted by Hate_bs

Here is a tid bit:
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st176.pdf

Cops are 6 times more likely to shoot the victim instead of the criminal.

If you call the cops for help, be ready to get shot.

TRUTH! Too bad I haven't found the stats for more murders by cops but JPFO has some very timely articles on "Death by Cops".

Thanks for the link.

As prior LE, I am amazed at some of the poo in this thread, and the lack of real world knowledge. Do not rely on the police for protection. Many police are simoly interested in power, money, machoism, and demanding respect. I left LE because I found myself surrounding by men with little education looking to make money. Believecme, the second job money making opportunities are much more than on the job. Makes you wonder where their loyalities really lay: the job or the strip club?
Yes, there are some honest cops, most of them prior military in my experience... but even the most well meaning cop cannot possibly get there fast enough. To be fully protected by police, every single person would need their own cop. Divide that responsibility by two 12 hour shifts, and that equals 2/3 of the population being "police".
Same principle as this short video:
Penn reminds us why Libertarians are awesome. - YouTube
.... and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=creSW...feature=fvwrel

Yes, knifes are more deadly than handguns. Yes, a fit person can cover 21 ft in a second or two. Crime will never go away. Honest police officers want law abidding citizens to have firearms. There is a reason my Sherrif signs countless Class III applications on my behalf. In every study I have ever seen, states or societies which did not yet (re)enacted conceal-carry saw a noteable reduction in crime. Criminals are usually actually big wussies, like vultures preying on the weak. They generally cannot shoot well, maintain their weapon, and are suprisingly not fitness buffs. If you take the safety of your family seriously, invest and train in firearms, martial arts, and survivalism. Natural selection always prevails over government intervention.
Yes, there are citizens which make deadly mistakes with firearms (so do cops!), as they makecwith automobiles, gas appliances, chain saws, and everything else. The answer is not to bannish firearms! An armed society is the one capable of being a free society. I would ecourage people to invest in their gun education as seriously as they do their liberal education. Trained people like me will gladly show you the ropes.
"Voting is as dangerous or useful as a rifle - its usefulness depends on the user" - Teddy Roosevelt

For people who think the police are their guardian angles, I hope you get this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaDP8YLCKj4

For you biased anti-gunners: you need not fear, ignore your rights... they will go away, no doubt.

Originally Posted by Brady

With you gun nuts its shoot first and ask questions later. Thats why your 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. Oops that was grandma!

I won't say it's never happened,(Brady doing back flips)but it's happened much,much more often when it has been a home intruder done the killing.

Originally Posted by Brady

Just saying the stats show that you gun nuts have a very poor track record when it comes to distinguishing between harmless and dangerous people. The truth hurts.

I'm still all confused,how do you tell the difference between harmless and dangerous? Is dangerous waving a 'shette around screaming and maybe harmless is standing there smiling(with his hand in his pocket)?

Originally Posted by Galileo

I do believe such untrue and defamatory claims to be libel. No one was able to prove anything against Kellermann with credible sources. There was massive copying and pasting from shady sources that made erroneous claims about his studies. Nothing that impressive from your side.

Oh yeah? Except for the simple problem that statistics disprove that theory and always have.
Firearm Accident Fatalities at an All-Time Low

Data recently released by the National Center for Health Statistics shows that in 2008, the number and per capita rate of firearm accident deaths fell to an all-time low. There were 592 firearm accident deaths (0.19 such accidents per 100,000 population) in 2008, as compared to 613 accidents (.20 per 100,000) in 2007. In 2008, the chance of a child dying in a firearm accident was roughly one in a million.

Firearm accidents accounted for 0.5% of all accidental deaths; well below the percentages accounted for by motor vehicle accidents, falls, fires, poisonings, and several other more common types of mishaps.

Contrary to claims made recently by some gun control advocates, firearm suicides among children are extremely uncommon, and in 2008, fell to an all-time low.

Firearm homicides (including self-defense, but excluding lawful shootings by police) declined in 2008. More recent data reported by the FBI, shows that criminal homicides declined in 2008, again in 2009, and again in 2010, to a 47-year low.

See how you can twist that around star gazer... or quit posting Kellerman's faulty study paid for by the Joyce Foundation for anti Constitutional gun control groups. I am not going to go through all that material already posted that proves the faults in that piece of garbage. It is not valid and no longer any benefit to you nor anyone else; it merely shows how desperate you are to grasp at any straw while you sink...

MORE GUNS = LESS CRIME
Learn it, love it, live it!