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Thread: Guns, Testosterone, and Aggression

  1. #1
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    Guns, Testosterone, and Aggression

    "Researchers from Knox College find that male college students who held a gun rather than a child's toy for 15 minutes had elevated levels of testosterone and added three times as much hot sauce to a glass of water that another test subject subsequently had to drink."
    Richard Morin - Perfect 10s and the Odds of a Pink Nursery - washingtonpost.com

    " 'The finger pulls the trigger,' says Leonard Berkowitz, an emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Wisconsin. 'But the trigger may also pull the finger. It's not just that having a gun is a convenient way of settling an argument. The weapon itself is a stimulant to violence.'

    "Berkowitz has studied the 'weapons effect' for more than 40 years. 'There's no dispute,' he says. 'Even the sight of guns, which people think of as objects that can hurt others, can induce aggressive ideas. A weapon can function as a conditioned stimulus, eliciting both the thoughts and motor responses associated with its use.' "
    WHY GUNS SHARE THE BLAME - TIME
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Make a damn point already. Posting nonsense like this proves nothing, other than the fact that you're an internet troll.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    Make a damn point already. Posting nonsense like this proves nothing, other than the fact that you're an internet troll.
    Isn't the point pretty obvious- that exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts and actions?
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    Isn't the point pretty obvious-
    Not with you Mr. Muddy Waters.

    that exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts and actions?
    It's a bunch of bull****, another attempt at a causation/correlation bait and switch tactic without any evidence to back it up. There are plenty of people who have constant access to firearms, and yet never display violent tendencies.

    You really should be careful about posting nonsense like this. If your article has any validity, it would be grounds for disarming the police, since them having access to guns would make them more violent towards the people, and more likely to kill innocent bystanders.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    Not with you Mr. Muddy Waters.

    It's a bunch of bull****, another attempt at a causation/correlation bait and switch tactic without any evidence to back it up. There are plenty of people who have constant access to firearms, and yet never display violent tendencies.
    And there are plenty of people who smoke who don't develop lung cancer. You're cherry picking.

    Quote Originally Posted by NATO 556 View Post
    You really should be careful about posting nonsense like this. If your article has any validity, it would be grounds for disarming the police, since them having access to guns would make them more violent towards the people, and more likely to kill innocent bystanders.
    Police are probably much more aggressive than the average citizen, but most of the time their aggression is channeled against the bad guys.

    And don't you find it significant that a gun, a symbol and tool of violence, can raise levels of testosterone? What kind of effect does testosterone have on behavior? Dogs become more friendly when testosterone is reduced in their bodies through neutering:

    "One of the most important behavioral advantages of castration is that as adults, these dogs will tend to be less aggressive both toward other male dogs and also people. The androgen (male) hormones, of which testosterone is the most important, are responsible for the development of many behavioral patterns. When young puppies are sexually mounting their 7 and 8-week old litter mates this is because of androgen surges in their bodies. The same is true with aggressive behavior."
    Benefits of Neutering (Castrating) Male Dogs & Puppies
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    And there are plenty of people who smoke who don't develop lung cancer. You're cherry picking.
    Firearms aren't comparable to cigars and cigarettes. We've explained that before, but you just continue to ignore the facts. Guns and drugs aren't the same, they can't be compared. Shooting NEVER causes cancer, however the carcinogens in cigarettes DO cause cancer.

    Police are probably much more aggressive than the average citizen, but most of the time their aggression is channeled against the bad guys.
    You obviously haven't been paying attention to the news reports talking about accounts of police brutality, where the police actively assault regular citizens for as little as crossing the street.

    You also made no mention of mitigating circumstances in your little rant against gun ownership. You don't get to introduce such on behalf of the police.

    And don't you find it significant that a gun, a symbol and tool of violence, can raise levels of testosterone?
    I've seen no solid evidence to prove there's an actual connection between guns and testosterone levels. Just more of your correlation/causation bull****. One could easily argue that those with naturally higher than average testosterone levels would want to hold a gun more than they would a stupid child's toy.

    Millions of people are carrying guns every day, and they're not having hostile encounters with other people. Not even in high stress situations. That kind of blows your "study" out of the water.

    Try again.

    What kind of effect does testosterone have on behavior?
    A beneficial effect. Ever hear of testosterone replacement therapy?

    Dogs become more friendly when testosterone is reduced in their bodies through neutering:
    Are you trying to make an argument against gun ownership, or just testosterone?

    "One of the most important behavioral advantages of castration is that as adults, these dogs will tend to be less aggressive both toward other male dogs and also people. The androgen (male) hormones, of which testosterone is the most important, are responsible for the development of many behavioral patterns. When young puppies are sexually mounting their 7 and 8-week old litter mates this is because of androgen surges in their bodies. The same is true with aggressive behavior."
    And if we castrated all sex offenders then they'd never be able to re-offend again. No more rapes, no more recidivism, nothing. But the potential benefits of such a program don't outweigh a person's rights. And since we have Heller and McDonald that's even more true in this case.
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    And don't you find it significant that a gun, a symbol and tool of violence, can raise levels of testosterone? What kind of effect does testosterone have on behavior? Dogs become more friendly when testosterone is reduced in their bodies through neutering:
    So Starguy since you are obviously afraid of guns and won't go near, you don't have to worry about any"violent testosterone's" but if you want to be friendlier
    well you know how to do it. OUCH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    And there are plenty of people who smoke who don't develop lung cancer. You're cherry picking.


    Police are probably much more aggressive than the average citizen, but most of the time their aggression is channeled against the bad guys.

    And don't you find it significant that a gun, a symbol and tool of violence, can raise levels of testosterone? What kind of effect does testosterone have on behavior? Dogs become more friendly when testosterone is reduced in their bodies through neutering:

    "One of the most important behavioral advantages of castration is that as adults, these dogs will tend to be less aggressive both toward other male dogs and also people. The androgen (male) hormones, of which testosterone is the most important, are responsible for the development of many behavioral patterns. When young puppies are sexually mounting their 7 and 8-week old litter mates this is because of androgen surges in their bodies. The same is true with aggressive behavior."
    Benefits of Neutering (Castrating) Male Dogs & Puppies
    So increased levels of testosterone cause agressiveness in women? Androgen causes aggressive behavior in females?
    You know this crud is ridiculous and long refuted. Wanna go around again like Bellesiles, who by the way is now admitting it was a wrong, fake story and lays the blame on the student who told him the story. If he can't get reality right in current events, just how accurate do you think he is in history? Yuk, yuk, yuk. Just a portent of how skewed his upcoming book will be with all his bias and semi-literate "facts". I will keep my money in my pocket and fold it to double it

    Why do you always play water and seek the lowest levels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    "Researchers from Knox College find that male college students who held a gun rather than a child's toy for 15 minutes had elevated levels of testosterone and added three times as much hot sauce to a glass of water that another test subject subsequently had to drink."
    Richard Morin - Perfect 10s and the Odds of a Pink Nursery - washingtonpost.com

    " 'The finger pulls the trigger,' says Leonard Berkowitz, an emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Wisconsin. 'But the trigger may also pull the finger. It's not just that having a gun is a convenient way of settling an argument. The weapon itself is a stimulant to violence.'

    "Berkowitz has studied the 'weapons effect' for more than 40 years. 'There's no dispute,' he says. 'Even the sight of guns, which people think of as objects that can hurt others, can induce aggressive ideas. A weapon can function as a conditioned stimulus, eliciting both the thoughts and motor responses associated with its use.' "
    WHY GUNS SHARE THE BLAME - TIME
    I'd be curious if Berkowitz studied whether a sword or club produced the same effect as a firearm?
    Short of castrating all boys at the onset of puberty, I'm afraid boys will be boys.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

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    There are more sublime items a man can use his hand to play with that can bring about the same result other than a gun Galileo. I do not dispute the findings of this study but I do have to say that T levels (from experience) tend to deminish as the maturity of the (weapon holder) advances. I'm happy to say this is not the case where the afformentioned "sublime items" are concerned. Fortunately my wife feels the same way. (giggle)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zz55 View Post
    There are more sublime items a man can use his hand to play with that can bring about the same result other than a gun Galileo. I do not dispute the findings of this study but I do have to say that T levels (from experience) tend to deminish as the maturity of the (weapon holder) advances. I'm happy to say this is not the case where the afformentioned "sublime items" are concerned. Fortunately my wife feels the same way. (giggle)

    Welcome to the board ZZ. I am rotflmao.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Jones View Post
    So increased levels of testosterone cause agressiveness in women? Androgen causes aggressive behavior in females?
    You know this crud is ridiculous and long refuted. Wanna go around again like Bellesiles, who by the way is now admitting it was a wrong, fake story and lays the blame on the student who told him the story. If he can't get reality right in current events, just how accurate do you think he is in history? Yuk, yuk, yuk. Just a portent of how skewed his upcoming book will be with all his bias and semi-literate "facts". I will keep my money in my pocket and fold it to double it

    Why do you always play water and seek the lowest levels?
    You're confusing Berkowitz with Bellesiles. Better ease up on the paint thinner. And you're also wrong about the effect of testosterone on women's behavior:

    "CONCLUSION: Testosterone is related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance in prison among women, as has been reported among men. Changes in these behaviors with age are in part explained by a decline in testosterone levels."
    Age, testosterone, and behavior among female prison inmates -- Dabbs and Hargrove 59 (5): 477 -- Psychosomatic Medicine


    Quote Originally Posted by zz55 View Post
    There are more sublime items a man can use his hand to play with that can bring about the same result other than a gun Galileo. I do not dispute the findings of this study but I do have to say that T levels (from experience) tend to deminish as the maturity of the (weapon holder) advances. I'm happy to say this is not the case where the afformentioned "sublime items" are concerned. Fortunately my wife feels the same way. (giggle)
    Yes, I'm sure the little blue pill can work wonders for people who have the opposite problem (too little testosterone instead of too much) but that isn't really the point of this thread.
    "Indeed, not a word in the constitutional text even arguably supports the Courtís overwrought and novel description of the Second Amendment as 'elevat[ing] above all other interests' 'the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.' Ante,at 63."
    -Justice Stevens on the Heller ruling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    You're confusing Berkowitz with Bellesiles. Better ease up on the paint thinner. And you're also wrong about the effect of testosterone on women's behavior:
    Nah, I just threw him in to warn you of what was going to happen with this case since you defended Bellesiles so much and so many times. That was just an update on Bellesiles. Stroking a gun hasn't done a thing for me so you and your source must be confused. Does it turn you on star gazer?

    "CONCLUSION: Testosterone is related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance in prison among women, as has been reported among men. Changes in these behaviors with age are in part explained by a decline in testosterone levels."
    Age, testosterone, and behavior among female prison inmates -- Dabbs and Hargrove 59 (5): 477 -- Psychosomatic Medicine
    Mixing authors now?

    Yes, I'm sure the little blue pill can work wonders for people who have the opposite problem (too little testosterone instead of too much) but that isn't really the point of this thread.
    You got proof huh? What is your point? That is all you are foisting on the board today. Kind of late to back out now isn't it star gazer? Did you make another unsupportable claim?

    Is there any proof that a homeowner pointing a gun at the perp and shooting at him reduces the testosterone level. That is my point!
    That is all that FUNDAMENTALLY matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
    You're confusing Berkowitz with Bellesiles. Better ease up on the paint thinner. And you're also wrong about the effect of testosterone on women's behavior:
    No confusion going on here. You backed Bellesiles to the hilt even after it was proven beyond all reasonable doubt that he was not only wrong, he was an outright liar too. You were wrong about him, you're wrong about this new "expert" too.

    "CONCLUSION: Testosterone is related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance in prison among women, as has been reported among men. Changes in these behaviors with age are in part explained by a decline in testosterone levels."
    Testosterone levels in women are, by biology, lower than they are in men. There's no way a woman can compete with a man in terms of produced testosterone levels. It's simply not possible.

    And why do you need to cite a secondary author to back up a previous one?

    Yes, I'm sure the little blue pill can work wonders for people who have the opposite problem (too little testosterone instead of too much) but that isn't really the point of this thread.
    Your argument is basically that firearms are a drug that directly raise the testosterone levels in anyone who touches them, and makes them far more prone to violence. So once again we come to the tired old argument that guns are basically a magical entity that induce violence, rage and the desire to hurt/murder others, in even the most calm and peace loving of people simply by being in their presence. In your argument there are no mitigating circumstances, no other explanations, no nothing. Your entire argument is that the gun made them do it, that they have no will of their own and that an inanimate object is capable of exercising control over their very lives.

    We've heard this all before! And every single time it's been proven completely wrong! Get some new material or surrender already!
    [QUOTE=Brady;363469]When I was a kid I did lots of things like playing with fire and torturing animals even though adults told me not to.[/QUOTE]
    The admission of a sociopathic serial killer.

    [QUOTE=Penfold;363126]No Personal attacks, insults, name calling, offensive generalizations, or labeling.[/QUOTE]
    He should practice what he preaches.

    The three duties of government: 1. Protect property 2. preserve contracts 3. provide for the rule of law.

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    Remember that scene in 2001 when the monkey picks up the bone and has visions of felling game?
    Weapons promote power fantasies. I'm not sure I have a problem with that as long as one can separate fantasy from reality.
    "They asked if I had found Jesus and I didn't even know He was missing."

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