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Thread: People are born gay, researcher says

  1. #1
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    People are born gay, researcher says

    Being gay is in the genes, say researchers

    Polly Curtis, education correspondent
    Thursday June 16, 2005

    Guardian Unlimited
    Being gay is nothing to do with your relationship with your mother, your father, or your best friend at boarding school; it is all in the genes, according to the scientific authors of a new book on the subject.

    Born Gay: The Psychobiology of Sexual Orientation, by Qazi Rahman, a psychobiologist at the University of East London, and Glenn Wilson, a personality specialist from the University of London, reviews research from the last 15 years into why people are gay.

    The evidence, they conclude, is that people are born with their sexuality defined, and it is not the result of their relationships with other people in their early life, as had been previously thought.

    In 1990, the psychobiologist Simon LeVay published research that revealed differences in small parts of the brain between gay and straight men. Three years later, further research argued that there were chromosomal differences. Since then there has been an "absolute explosion" in research into the area, Dr Rahman said, but his is the first attempt to analyse it together.

    "There's the classical gay man with a smothering mother and distant father idea - which comes from Freud's oedipal complex theories. For most of us scientific psychologists, Freud's theory is like astrology to a physicist. In other words it's rubbish," he told EducationGuardian.co.uk.

    "Gay and straight men don't differ in their relationships with their parents. Where they do it might be put down to the fact that if you're a biologically gay boy, you are more likely to be feminine. You might well expect that fathers are not too happy. And mothers seek to protect."

    He said there was no evidence that people could "learn" to be gay, for example children of gay parents are no more likely to be gay than their peers.

    The researchers examined evidence from the fields of psychology, neuroscience, genetics, endocrinology and evolutionary biology, and concluded that sexual orientation is determined by a combination of genetics and hormonal activity in the womb - and that upbringing, childhood experience and personal choice have little or no influence.

    They argue that the 2% to 4% of people in the population who are gay are born that way, and this proportion does not seem to vary across societies. While men tend to be either heterosexual or homosexual, with little evidence for true bisexuality, women show more mixed preferences.

    The book, which has a pink cover with black lettering and an Andy Warhol-style design of people in a London street, one picked out to represent the one gay man in 25, was published last week.
    http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...508092,00.html
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    Wow, the guardian, there is a fair and impartial publication..........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    Wow, the guardian, there is a fair and impartial publication..........
    OK, same story from the University of East London


    http://www.uel.ac.uk/news/press_rele...es/borngay.htm
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    It seems like this issue of being "born gay" or gay being genetic is always a big deal here. I just don't see why it matters much either way.
    “We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” - Reagan

    "A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading."
    - C. S. Lewis

    "I suffer more harassment as a former homosexual than I ever did as an out and proud homosexual." - Greg Quinlan, PFOX

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    Quote Originally Posted by jyoshu
    It seems like this issue of being "born gay" or gay being genetic is always a big deal here. I just don't see why it matters much either way.

    It shouldn't matter, but in fact many people could change the stand if they understood that this is how people are born. It also tears down some of the notions that sexuality is fluid and/or changable. The whole ex-gay movement which is a multi-million dollar industry diguised as missionary work would be shot up with holes (like it doesn't havea bunch of wholes in it now)
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  6. #6
    Michele Guest
    You are right Joe. I don't know how many people I have heard that said that it is a choice and that was why they were against it.

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    There are just as many studies that say being Gay is a choice as there are that say your born that way..........

    I personally believe it is a choice otherwise how do you explain so many people who were gay and converted to straight or how many people who were straight and converted to gay........

    Truth is we will probably never know th answer to whether its a choice or your born that way..........

    Gay Rights activists would love for everyone to believe that gays are born that way so they could claim legitimate minority status.....
    Last edited by Voice Of Reason; 06-17-2005 at 05:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    There are just as many studies that say being Gay is a choice as there are that say your born that way..........
    B-A-L-O-N-E-Y! I chalange you to cite ONE legitimate study that concludes it is a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    I personally believe it is a choice otherwise how do you explain so many people who were gay and converted to straight or how many people who were straight and converted to gay........
    What is to explain? I don't know of anyone who has done either. All I see is propaganda from ex-gay ministries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    Truth is we will prbably never know th answer to whether its a choice or your born that way..........
    And some people would never believe it if it WERE proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    Steve

    Treaty of Tripoli : Appropriately Ratified
    "ARTICLE 11.
    As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"

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    Quote Originally Posted by wsm2506
    B-A-L-O-N-E-Y! I chalange you to cite ONE legitimate study that concludes it is a choice.

    What is to explain? I don't know of anyone who has done either. All I see is propaganda from ex-gay ministries.

    And some people would never believe it if it WERE proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    1. Just got to google and search on it...........Of course you will deny their creditability as I do the ones that are on your side............Truth is no one knows as I said............

    2. That is your opinion and I am not surprised you feel that way because if it is true it throws out your whole argument.......

    3. It can never be proven either way for sure...........Like I said the only proof we have is the people who have changed........
    Abortion is the most barbaric act one human being can perpetrate on another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    There are just as many studies that say being Gay is a choice as there are that say your born that way..........

    I personally believe it is a choice otherwise how do you explain so many people who were gay and converted to straight or how many people who were straight and converted to gay........

    Truth is we will probably never know th answer to whether its a choice or your born that way..........

    Gay Rights activists would love for everyone to believe that gays are born that way so they could claim legitimate minority status.....

    This post is hilarious. Either you are living in a vacume or you get news from a bad blog site. Dude, there are no crediable studies ever that prove it is a choice. Not a one. Paul Cameron doesn't count, he is paid for by a christian group.

    There is no scientific evidence anyone has converted their sexuality either way.

    We already have a minority status with the government. Have you been to the NIH site? Sexual minorities are listed as a minority for health reasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    1. Just got to google and search on it...........Of course you will deny their creditability as I do the ones that are on your side............Truth is no one knows as I said............

    2. That is your opinion and I am not surprised you feel that way because if it is true it throws out your whole argument.......

    3. It can never be proven either way for sure...........Like I said the only proof we have is the people who have changed........

    Show me the proof someone has changed their sexuality? Prove they have no desire to be gay anymore........Prove they are not just in the closet. and by the way...scienctifically testimonials on a christian website are not scientific proof. Find me one credible source that backs up your claims.....(hint) there are none, but plenty of major medical and pyschological associations that claim ex-gay therapy is a fraud!
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebrummer
    Show me the proof someone has changed their sexuality? Prove they have no desire to be gay anymore........Prove they are not just in the closet. and by the way...scienctifically testimonials on a christian website are not scientific proof. Find me one credible source that backs up your claims.....(hint) there are none, but plenty of major medical and pyschological associations that claim ex-gay therapy is a fraud!
    There are thousands of cases of them but with your bias you will never believe it or don't want to believe it because it does not fit your agenda.........I could post all kind of links that show testimonials of people that have converted, got married and are raising families but you will say they are still gay or in the closet so what is the point...............
    Abortion is the most barbaric act one human being can perpetrate on another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joebrummer
    This post is hilarious. Either you are living in a vacume or you get news from a bad blog site. Dude, there are no crediable studies ever that prove it is a choice. Not a one. Paul Cameron doesn't count, he is paid for by a christian group.

    There is no scientific evidence anyone has converted their sexuality either way.

    We already have a minority status with the government. Have you been to the NIH site? Sexual minorities are listed as a minority for health reasons.
    You may consider yourself a minority but the federal government does not and that is what counts..............African Americans, Hispanics are real minorities.........You can disguish them clearly by the color of theri skin........The only way you can disguish a gay person is by his or her sexual actions.............
    Abortion is the most barbaric act one human being can perpetrate on another.

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    You may hear: There is something in the law called "protected minority class status" and civil rights laws can only apply to people who meet those classifications.

    The truth is: The phrase "protected minority class status" has no legal meaning. The right wing has deliberately constructed faulty and misleading analysis of civil rights law in an attempt to undermine support for anti-discrimination legislation. This terminology is simply designed to sabotage all civil rights laws.

    Arlene Zarembka, in an article entitled "Debunking the 'Minority Status' Lie," states,

    "On the one hand, the right-wing uses the phrase to drive a wedge between racial/ethnic minorities and lesbians and gay men, arguing that discrimination against racial/ethnic minorities is 'status based,' whereas discrimination against lesbians and gay men is 'behavior-based.' In fact, most discrimination and violence against lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals occurs because a person is or is thought to be gay, and not because of any behavior. On the other hand, (the Right wing) uses the 'protected minority class status' phrase to undermine white support for civil rights protections in general, by falsely claiming that laws give racial and ethnic minorities some sort of 'special rights and privileges,' 'advantages,' and 'elevated status'."

    Zarembka continues,

    "The right-wing deftly distorts the Supreme Court's decisions on the Constitution's Equal Protection Clause. Then it confuses judicial interpretations of the Equal Protections Clause with the powers of the legislative bodies. The Equal Protections Clause does not grant anyone 'protected minority class status.' The Equal Protections Clause of the United States Constitution sets limits on the ability of legislative bodies to discriminate against people. It does not restrict the right of legislatures to protect people from discrimination… The Court does not use the Equal Protections Clause to decide that certain groups are not deserving of protection under civil rights statutes."

    Arlene Zarembka, "Debunking the 'Minority Status' Lie," BLK, March 1994, reprinted in Racefile, May-June 1994, p. 31.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice Of Reason
    There are thousands of cases of them but with your bias you will never believe it or don't want to believe it because it does not fit your agenda.........I could post all kind of links that show testimonials of people that have converted, got married and are raising families but you will say they are still gay or in the closet so what is the point...............
    Those are put together by the conversion businesses. It's like the tobacco company gathering a group of people together, in an attempt to deomonstrate that smokers who use their products have perfect health.

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