I have yet to see you post ANYTHING about the bible which actually "protected rights".

And in addition, you have this habit of incessantly whining about "out of context" while you SHOW NO CONTEXT which was supposedly abused...


Gee. Sounds familiar...

Deu 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; [but] life [shall go] for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

And you want to talk about "the little guy"???
You don't seem to recognize that to the Hebrews, WOMEN AND NON-JEWS were ALL the "little guy".

You could "rent" a bonded Israelite, but you could OUTRIGHT OWN a non-Israelite.
And as for women? They had NO standing.
If a woman wasn't a virgin on her wedding night, she gets killed.
A man? No mention.

If a woman gets raped, the rapist gets to pay the father a few shekels (in compensation) and then the rapist gets to marry his rape victim.

__________________
"Speak up; for he that withholds his opinion shall inherit the winds of tyranny"
*** www.politicalwrinkles.com
"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
*** Jamie Raskin

You're taking that completely out of context foundit!!!

__________________
"Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
Isaac Asimov

"Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived"
Oscar Wilde

How about the Roman Empire was it based on religion?

Rome had a strong religious system. In a way you could say the ancient world was based upon religion. Many cultures had different gods or forms of worship. The Romans were no exception except they based most of their gods off of those of the Greeks. Rome, also had many temples and many of their greatest architectural achievements were those buildings built as temples and houses of worship for their citizens.

__________________
"I have no desire to tear you down or to condemn you or your faith in Christ. "

"What a joke; It takes nerve for a couple of anti-christian reprobates to start criticizing believers."

"Or to claim to understand the nature or character of Jesus. If you two had a clue about Jesus teachings, you wouldn't be opposing them with every fiber of your beings."

-Archangel

"Disagreeing with you does not make someone anti-Christian, Archangel, it makes them anti-nutjob." - Jo Bennett

So you agree that religion was the glue that created civilization then?


You are correct.

As were most early civilizations, including the Egyptians.

As I stated above, religion was the glue that held society together....as it does today in many places.

__________________
I'll keep my guns and my money. You can keep your "Change".

"We had the machine scared and scrambling, and for them it is just the beginning of an election year filled with surprises. They will be challenged again and again across this country. When there's trouble in Massachusetts, there's trouble everywhere -- and now they know it." Senator Scott Brown (R MA)

No.
No more than we could argue the "pulley" built a city.
Religion is a tool USED BY MEN who deserve the credit.


You conflate the situation of "had a religion" with the issue of "based on religion".
Mere existence does not justify the claim of "based on".

Although, if we were to claim that the Roman Empire was "based on" their religion, it would lead to a fascinating question as to whether the fall of Rome was BECAUSE OF Christianity usurping Rome's previous religious territory.
Christianity grew in the last stages of Rome's life, as it was in clear decline...
Did Christianity usurping Rome's "base" cause Rome to fall?

Oh wait. Let me guess.
Give religion CREDIT for things, but never condemnation for anything...

__________________
"Speak up; for he that withholds his opinion shall inherit the winds of tyranny"
*** www.politicalwrinkles.com
"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
*** Jamie Raskin

You're missing the point of the whole argument. Religion was the basis for the powerful to maintain order amongst the population. Like it or not, without religion, chaos ensued. Man's inate instincts were counter to religious doctrine, particularly Christian doctrine.
Argue the splinter while the log stares you in the face. Without religion, lawlessness prevailed.
It really doesn't matter. My point was that religion "civilized" mankind. Prior to religion, mankind lived by a dog-eat-dog dogma.

__________________
I'll keep my guns and my money. You can keep your "Change".

"We had the machine scared and scrambling, and for them it is just the beginning of an election year filled with surprises. They will be challenged again and again across this country. When there's trouble in Massachusetts, there's trouble everywhere -- and now they know it." Senator Scott Brown (R MA)

If that were true then no one would find religion appealing and it would die.

The reason religion appeals to man is because it appeals to man so it can only be parallel to man's nature.

Mans nature is animal and that animal loves religion.

You keep saying this, but that's all you're doing-saying it.

__________________
"Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
Isaac Asimov

"Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived"
Oscar Wilde

What gave the Pharoahs control over their subjects? It was the belief that they were divine.
What gave the Emperor of Japan the control over the Japanese during WWII? It was the belief that Hiro Hito was divine.
History is replete with examples of religion holding societies together AND creating new ones.

__________________
I'll keep my guns and my money. You can keep your "Change".

"We had the machine scared and scrambling, and for them it is just the beginning of an election year filled with surprises. They will be challenged again and again across this country. When there's trouble in Massachusetts, there's trouble everywhere -- and now they know it." Senator Scott Brown (R MA)

You've shown that religion was used by those in power to keep or expand their power. I don't think anyone was arguing that.

__________________
"Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
Isaac Asimov

"Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived"
Oscar Wilde

No. You're missing the point.
If I said "without the screwdriver, the desk could not have been built".
Does that mean it's intelligent to claim the desk was BASED ON the screwdriver?
No.

The screwdriver WAS A TOOL of the builder.
Likewise, religion is a MANMADE INVENTION to keep superstitious people in line, while the populace lacks the capability to reason.
WITHOUT EDUCATION, "religion" is a means to an end.
It doesn't mean that the culture is BASED on religion, especially when it's just a tool CREATED BY man.


Because of the lack of education in the masses...

When people are kids, they are told "be good or else Santa Clause won't bring you any presents".
By that impetus to "be good", would you argue that childhood is BASED ON Santa Clause?
NO!

Furthermore, you are SERIOUSLY missing a point here...
Religion is a tool to keep people in line WITH THE THREAT of what an invisible entity could do.
It allows a small group of people to CONTROL the population, regardless of the legitimacy of the claim OR the legitimacy to the morality of the control.
If you think "civilization" is based on something that essentially boils down to what a lot of Christians categorize as "superstition" or "myths" when it's not THEIR PERSONAL religion, then you're missing the bigger picture here...


So you think that threats from an invisible being superceded governments who employed soldiers with sharp sticks that killed...
... and that the only reason those governments established their rules was because they feared a god???

I think the clearest demonstration of the absurdity of this situation is to compare TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
One? A man who is subject to BOTH the government AND the imaginary god.
Two? A man who is ONLY subject to the imaginary god, because that man happens to be king...

The Old Testament alone is a perfect example of how uncivil kings can be...

I point to a long list of transgressions of people who committed violent blood-shed BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT their god told them to commit genocide...
But again, you want to give credit TO religion...
... and predictably, there's absolutely no mention of how many times religion has TORN DOWN civilizations...


ROFLMAO!
AGAIN, LOGIC is not your friend...
Did the Israelites believe Pharoah to be divine?
OF COURSE THEY DID NOT

You have a group of people who did NOT believe in the "divinity" of their ruler, yet they FOLLOWED the ruler anyways...
WHY?
Because the Pharaoh KILLED people who threatened him.
The Pharaoh would have KILLED Israelites who refused to obeyed him.

LOOK at the biblical transaction that occurred when Moses showed up and said "God says we need to go from here"...
Did the Israelites all go "Well, Since OUR God said so, I guess we should go regardless of what the Pharaoh (who is not our God) thinks..."?
NO. The Israelites DID NOT say that, and they DID NOT LEAVE Egypt until the Pharaoh said it was okay.
Pharaoh with an army TRUMPED God amongst Israelites who KNEW Pharaoh wasn't God...

THAT is what established civilization. The threat of REAL punishment.
The fact that the peasants must do what the king says, otherwise the king would kill the peasants.


Big ol' thumbs up.

__________________
"Speak up; for he that withholds his opinion shall inherit the winds of tyranny"
*** www.politicalwrinkles.com
"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
*** Jamie Raskin

This post is too windy, I'm excerpting and replying in part only.
I most certainly do. So should you if you have even a modicum of common sense and knowledge of history. Ever hear of the Crusades?

I've yet to see religion tear down a civilization. Civilizations are destroyed by MEN, not religion. I've never sat in a mass in which my priest stated that Catholicism says we have to destroy another civilization. Sorry, no sale.

That's a real bastardization of the Bible if I ever heard one. The slaves left Egypt after several demonstrated plagues followed by Moses telling the pharoah that the next plague would be of his own doing. He ordered that all first born males of Israel be killed. Instead, Egypt's first-born were killed and the pharoah was forced to set the Israelites free.

Peasants have risen up against kings many times in the name of religion. Apparently, some religions are stronger than threats of violence by despots. Pity you never learned that.

__________________
I'll keep my guns and my money. You can keep your "Change".

"We had the machine scared and scrambling, and for them it is just the beginning of an election year filled with surprises. They will be challenged again and again across this country. When there's trouble in Massachusetts, there's trouble everywhere -- and now they know it." Senator Scott Brown (R MA)

You confuse the capability of leaders to USE religion, with GIVING CREDIT to the religion itself for achieving the leader's goals.

The leader uses BOTH pointy sticks (threats of death) AND religion to get the people to do what he wants.
Your analysis still fails to appreciate the fact that it IS THE LEADER (a human being) who deserves the credit. NOT the tools he uses.

Again, if we have a carpenter who builds a house, do we say that the house is "based on" a hammer cause a hammer was used?
No.


ROFLMAO!
OMG! That is HILARIOUS!
You are doing exactly what I mentioned earlier.
If a religion is involved in something POSITIVE, give credit to the religion!
If a religion is involved in something NEGATIVE, blame the man and not the religion.


What's really, really, REALLY funny about your claim is that YOUR OWN BIBLE has examples "civilizations" being destroyed by religion.
THROUGHOUT the Old Testament there are NUMEROUS examples of "god directed genocide".

So we come to a cross-roads.
Either you be consistent and blame the religion for destroying a long list of Jewish enemy civilizations...
... or you be consistent and give credit to man for both building and destroying.

I'm in the latter camp.


No. Not "bastardization" but rather boiling it down to key elements.
Your commentary adds nothing of significance.

AGAIN, I reiterate the point you cannot address...
Did the Israelites believe Pharoah to be divine?
OF COURSE THEY DID NOT

You have a group of people who did NOT believe in the "divinity" of their ruler, yet they FOLLOWED the ruler anyways...
WHY?
Because the Pharaoh KILLED people who threatened him.
The Pharaoh would have KILLED Israelites who refused to obeyed him.

Moses WAS (supposedly) the Hebrew God's messenger.
If the Israelites feared their god MORE than the pharaoh's pointy sticks, they would have left Egypt the minute they were convinced that Moses was their messenger. Which should have been pretty darn quick considering the plagues as proof, right?

But the plagues WERE NOT FOR convincing the Israelitse, who again WERE NOT BUDGING because of their God.
They ONLY moved when the PHARAOH (the guy with the pointy sticks) said it was okay for them to leave.

Can you admit the distinction?
Here we have to driving forces in OPPOSITE directions.
A) A ruler with pointy sticks and an army...
B) A God telling the Israelites to leave Egypt...

ONLY WHEN the Pharaoh said it was okay did they go.
So logically, WHICH WAS MORE IMPORTANT???
The answer is A, but you'll never admit it...


And people have risen up against religion as well.
After the Israelites got out of Egypt, some built a golden calf.
And what did the religious worshippers do?
Did they rely on their god to convert them?
No.

They picked up pointy sticks and KILLED those who disagreed with their religion.

The problem with your response is that I never claimed that the pointy sticks were absolute. Obviously, revolution can happen.
But the issue is WHICH ONE IS MORE POWERFUL in establishing order in civilization???
And that is clearly the REAL threat of death, as opposed to people weaving superstitious nonsense.

__________________
"Speak up; for he that withholds his opinion shall inherit the winds of tyranny"
*** www.politicalwrinkles.com
"Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution.
You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."
*** Jamie Raskin

Let's continue to beat your analogy to death. The builder can't build a thing without a blueprint or plan.
As a heathen, I would expect no more from you.
To stretch your builder analogy a bit further, religion is the blueprint. It's up to the builder to follow it or not. We call that "free will" in case you're not familiar with the term.
They didn't "follow the pharoah", they were forced to work for him under penalty of death. There's a big difference.
The people of Israel were sceptical of Moses at first. After all, he was like a son to the pharoah, so joe slave was leary about trusting his words.
Was it superstitious nonsense that forced the pharoah to let 600,000 Jews leave with all the riches that they could carry?

__________________
I'll keep my guns and my money. You can keep your "Change".

"We had the machine scared and scrambling, and for them it is just the beginning of an election year filled with surprises. They will be challenged again and again across this country. When there's trouble in Massachusetts, there's trouble everywhere -- and now they know it." Senator Scott Brown (R MA)