Interesting. I've been conversing recently with a range of Christians, many of them young. My experience of these young Christians is that they tend either to be very supportive of gay rights and gay people or rigidly opposed to what they call "homosexuality." The latter group usually insists that they are not anti-gay people, just anti-gay "acts" or "behavior." They point repeatedly to the Bible, and they do not take into consideration other sources of knowledge about gay people, as they insist the Bible is the only source of knowledge that Christians need or should rely on. They often refer to "homosexuality" as an addiction to sin, and they point to so-called "ex-gay ministries" as evidence that people who are "caught" in homosexuality can be changed by faith.

Based on my conversations with these young Christians, I think that this is a huge issue among Christians today within the faith more than in the political world outside the faith. Young Christians who insist that "homosexuality" is a "sin" view any retreat or change in Christian thinking on this issue as a threat to the whole edifice of their faith, a threat similar to the theory of evolution. They cling to a belief that "homosexuality" is a "sin" not because of any concern for gay people, whom most claim to have as "friends," which I doubt, frankly. They cling to this belief because they think that if they stop believing that "homosexuality" is a "sin," their faith will come crashing down, since they will then be accepting non-belief in the Bible. Other Christians regularly argue to them that the Bible passages that appear to refer to "homosexuality" can be interpreted and understood in different ways, but these folks who believe the Bible clearly condemns "homosexuality" are not willing to listen to those arguments.

Anyhow, I have seen a big division among young Christians on this issue. Mostly I see them argue not about how laws should treat gay people in the civil society, but about how the churches should regard gay people and "homosexuality" within Christianity.

Originally Posted by Ohioprof

Based on my conversations with these young Christians, I think that this is a huge issue among Christians today within the faith more than in the political world outside the faith. Young Christians who insist that "homosexuality" is a "sin" view any retreat or change in Christian thinking on this issue as a threat to the whole edifice of their faith, a threat similar to the theory of evolution. They cling to a belief that "homosexuality" is a "sin" not because of any concern for gay people, whom most claim to have as "friends," which I doubt, frankly. They cling to this belief because they think that if they stop believing that "homosexuality" is a "sin," their faith will come crashing down, since they will then be accepting non-belief in the Bible. Other Christians regularly argue to them that the Bible passages that appear to refer to "homosexuality" can be interpreted and understood in different ways, but these folks who believe the Bible clearly condemns "homosexuality" are not willing to listen to those arguments.

Anyhow, I have seen a big division among young Christians on this issue. Mostly I see them argue not about how laws should treat gay people in the civil society, but about how the churches should regard gay people and "homosexuality" within Christianity.

I know I've told you this already, but in my experience, some of what you're saying is true and some of it isn't. I think it's an oversimplification to say that Christians who won't budge on the moral issue (whether homosexual relationships are sinful or not) their "whole faith will come crashing down." I think most of these people probably don't budge simply because they believe the Bible is fairly clear on the matter, and that's the bottom line of their thinking. I see no reason to think their "faith would come crashing down" or that they themselves think that it would do so. I get the impression sometimes that people outside of Christianity think that anyone who thinks gay relations are not ok in the eyes of God are mostly just being arbitrary about it, and I don't believe that's the case. But I also think that these attempts to put Christians in category boxes in terms of their views on this are pretty limiting for the situation. Views vary enormously on this. For instance, there's plenty of Christians out there like myself, who, while believing the Bible does indicate homosexual relations are wrong, it's certainly not an issue that would send anyone to hell--it's not a make-or-break issue by any means. And these Christians also don't support things like marriage amendments and so forth. For us, there are greater and more important things to concern ourselves with. There are also varying degrees among Christians to the amount of 'disconnect' between one's beliefs and the extent to which they feel policy should be effected. But I do agree this is a big issue in Christianity, at least in terms of several mainline denominations (e.g. Anglicanism).

Originally Posted by jyoshu

I know I've told you this already, but in my experience, some of what you're saying is true and some of it isn't. I think it's an oversimplification to say that Christians who won't budge on the moral issue (whether homosexual relationships are sinful or not) their "whole faith will come crashing down." I think most of these people probably don't budge simply because they believe the Bible is fairly clear on the matter, and that's the bottom line of their thinking. I see no reason to think their "faith would come crashing down" or that they themselves think that it would do so. I get the impression sometimes that people outside of Christianity think that anyone who thinks gay relations are not ok in the eyes of God are mostly just being arbitrary about it, and I don't believe that's the case. But I also think that these attempts to put Christians in category boxes in terms of their views on this are pretty limiting for the situation. Views vary enormously on this. For instance, there's plenty of Christians out there like myself, who, while believing the Bible does indicate homosexual relations are wrong, it's certainly not an issue that would send anyone to hell--it's not a make-or-break issue by any means. And these Christians also don't support things like marriage amendments and so forth. For us, there are greater and more important things to concern ourselves with. There are also varying degrees among Christians to the amount of 'disconnect' between one's beliefs and the extent to which they feel policy should be effected. But I do agree this is a big issue in Christianity, at least in terms of several mainline denominations (e.g. Anglicanism).

I am simply reporting what people have told me with whom I have been conversing on this question. I am not inventing anything, just reporting. Certainly there are Christians with whom I've spoken who do not regard "homosexuality" as a very significant issue, or as something that will doom a person to hell. But more of the Christians with whom I've spoken DO regard what they call "unrepentant homosexuality" as dooming people to hell, and they say so quite openly. These folks have also said that if the Bible is wrong on this, then it must be wrong on everything, and that would undermine all of Christianity, which of course, they reject. They have insisted to me that Christianity is all of a piece, and everything they believe is true and interdependent with everything else. Again, I'm reporting what people have told me, and I have encountered a significant number of young Christians who have insisted that "homosexuality" is indeed a make or break issue, and anyone who refuses to "repent" of "practicing homosexuality" is going to hell. I have been told that I am going to hell for being gay.

You keep trying to speak for all Christians, but your beliefs are not those of all Christians. On gay issues, you seem, frankly, to be more liberal or more latitudinarian than a sizeable number of the Christians with whom I have been conversing.

Originally Posted by Ohioprof

I am simply reporting what people have told me with whom I have been conversing on this question. I am not inventing anything, just reporting.

I understand that.

Originally Posted by Ohioprof

You keep trying to speak for all Christians, but your beliefs are not those of all Christians.

No, I am not. I do not represent 'all Christians' and I don't think anyone could. In fact, that goes along with my point. I'm just giving you my experience, and as such pointing out that what you've gathered from these folks doesn't necessarily reflect all Christians and Christianity. (And you may not believe that it does anyway.) I understand you're just reporting what you've heard.

Originally Posted by jyoshu

I understand that.



No, I am not. I do not represent 'all Christians' and I don't think anyone could. In fact, that goes along with my point. I'm just giving you my experience, and as such pointing out that what you've gathered from these folks doesn't necessarily reflect all Christians and Christianity. (And you may not believe that it does anyway.) I understand you're just reporting what you've heard.

It sounds like we agree on these points.