Evolution vs. Creationism

obvious_child · #16 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 07:40 PM

SOC appears to have left the building.

byozaw · #17 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008, 09:12 PM

then I will debate

obvious_child · #18 (**permalink**) 11-08-2008, 10:08 PM

byozaw appears to have left the building.

I asked SOC before, "If you can't win in the regular forum, why bother in the formal?"

Thus, I must ask again, why bother if you're going to run away?

ServantOfChrist · #19 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious_child

byozaw appears to have left the building.

I asked SOC before, "If you can't win in the regular forum, why bother in the formal?"

Thus, I must ask again, why bother if you're going to run away?

Sorry if I actually have a life and cannot post constantly on the forums. I've been tying up a lot of deals at work and frankly have not had the time to do much besides visit a few minutes and read new posts. This is the reason I did not want to commit to an actual formal debate but rather a formal open debate.

So again, sorry if you think I am required to post to your whims, but I will post when I please and when I have time, Child. You can claim I am "running away" all you please, Child, if you enjoy trying to claim victory or something.

obvious_child · #20 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 08:49 PM

[quote=ServantOfChrist;331956 but I will post when I please [/QUOTE]

Got it. Therefore this thread should be deleted as you won't come back.

Larni · #21 (**permalink**) 12-02-2008, 10:53 AM

Victory for Obvious Child?

obvious_child · #22 (**permalink**) 12-02-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larni

Victory for Obvious Child?

When was the last time a creationist stood their ground on the flood when they weren't able to change the subject? Never?

Larni · #23 (**permalink**) 12-02-2008, 07:10 PM

Yeah, spose so.

Another opinion · #24 (**permalink**) 12-12-2008, 01:37 PM

This may be a slight tangent to any debate about a global flood, but there is substantial evidence of a large-scale flood around the Black Sea that may well have led to the perpetuation, elaboration, and final enshrinement in written form of the flood stories. Scientists from Columbia University discovered just such evidence around the Black Sea: (from http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/99/11/flood.html )

Quote:

Ryan and Pitman believe that the sealed Bosporus strait, which acted as a dam between the Mediterranean and Black seas, collapsed when climatic warming at the close of the last glacial period and caused icecaps to melt, raising global sea level. With more than 200 times the force of Niagara falls, the flood caused water levels in the Black Sea, which was no more than a large lake, to rise six inches per day and swallowed 60,000 square miles in less than a year. As the Mediterranean salt water replaced fresh water, it caused a wave of human migration from what had been an oasis of fresh water within very arid lands--an exodus traumatic enough to be recorded in human memory as the epic of Gilgamesh and the biblical story of Noah's Ark, the scientists said.
...
Using cutting-edge sonar equipment to map the ancient shoreline, Ryan and Pitman found that the shores had been at least 140 meters lower than the present shoreline. They also found a single, uniform layer of mud that strongly indicated a flood. When the sediment core samples were brought to the surface, Candace Major, a student intern for the cruise who is now a graduate student at Lamont, discovered sun-bleached freshwater mollusks, fossilized plant roots and cracks in the buried mud indicating that it had once been dried out and windswept.

"We came back with the goods," said Pitman.

While the scientists waited for the mollusk shell carbon-14 dates from an accelerated mass spectrometer--a machine with the highest accuracy available--they knew that those dates would be the ultimate test. If the sea had grown slowly for more than a thousand years, so would the population of the mollusks. But if a flood had occurred, all the mollusks would be approximately the same age.

In February 1994, the results came in. There was only a 40 year difference between the mollusks in the deepest layers and the ones in the shallowest. The date was 5,600 B.C.-- within the era of modern human history.

"Statistically, the dates were the same. It was pretty persuasive," said Pitman.

So with the scientific story in place, Ryan and Pitman began looking at other aspects of the story. They consulted with archeologists, anthropologists, linguists and seed geneticists. From this research, their hypothesis took shape: the Black Sea was an oasis where people from surrounding areas migrated during a cold, arid period beginning in 6,200 B.C. and exchanged languages, ideas and farming. When the Bosporus dam broke and the valley was deluged, the scientists believe, the peoples migrated to higher lands, taking the farming and cultural adaptations with them. The memory of the flood continued in an oral tradition for three thousand years until written languages emerged, and the tale remains in the epic of Gilgamesh and the biblical story of Noah.

I personally do not believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. However, I do agree with many who simply view it as a history of a people - the Hebrews - who may have interpreted various events in their lives religiously since they had no science to tell them otherwise. To local peoples, a relatively local flood would seem like a world flood. I personally find it interesting to find sources of information of the core (and usually much less exciting) reality that led to the Bible stories and other mythical stories (such as Troy).

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