Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

I would dearly love to post a link to those figures but don't have that at my fingertips. I doubt if even if I did it would change minds here. However, one might extrapolate from Iran's experience since the revolution in 1979. I have read that about 50% of the population has been born since then which has led to the present day difficulties of the Islamic clerics here to tried to take Iran back to the 7th century. I can't imagine any western nation that has had 50% of its population born since 1979.

Here is something to get your teeth into.

About 55 percent of Iranians were 24 years of age or younger in 2003.

http://encarta.msn.com/text_761567300___10/Iran.html

How about Tunisia with a birth rate of 1,75, or Algeria with a birth rate of 1,92?

Birth rates are fairly complicated phenomenons that is affected by economic, social, cultural, political and, yes perhaps even religous conditions in a country. I have yet to see that Islam in particular is a cause for high birth rates...

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

The exact number of Muslims in Europe is not known. There is no census giving accurate statistics.

Haha... Then how do you explain the birth rate figures of muslims in Europe you keep insisting on I guess you put your foot in your mouth this time

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

When Muslims gain strength, they begin to express demands in the area of ritual. Some wish to observe ritual prayer (salât) during working hours. They can ask for special time arrangements during the month of Ramadan. There are demands for the Muslim feasts of Id al-Fitr and Id al-Adhâ to be holidays, at least for Muslims.

Yeah, just like any other christian group including jews and christians. I don`t see how this is different from Muslims...

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

There is concern about obtaining hallâl meat (which in Sweden has led to serious conflict with the civil authorities, since the Muslim method of slaughter is strictly forbidden as being completely barbarous).

?? There is no conflict over the issue. Hallal meat can be imported (in which case the production methods are irrelvant). It can also be produced domesticly as long as the animals are tranqualized before they are drained. That website is full of it

If halal is done properly then a single cut severs nerve and artery simultaneously so feeling goes instantly and death from loss of blood within a few seconds.

Originally Posted by Jo Bennett

If halal is done properly then a single cut severs nerve and artery simultaneously so feeling goes instantly and death from loss of blood within a few seconds.

Ah, I didn`t know that. We do forbid hallal slaughter without proper paralyzation first though... But then again, our government is dependant on the enviromentalists

The purpose of halal is, at least partly, humane slaughtering, and it represents the best method achievable with brute force and a sharp knife. I find it interesting that Mule characterises Islam as a brutal religion when it even set out to treat animals relatively well, while Christian europe went in for veal crates, fois grois and battery farming hens.

Originally Posted by Eddie

Ah, I didn`t know that. We do forbid hallal slaughter without proper paralyzation first though... But then again, our government is dependant on the enviromentalists

Does it occur to anyone how barbaric is this method of slaughter? It reminds me of the time that Zarqawi sawed off the head of Nick Berg. All the time with a big smile on his face and laughing like a hyena. No western society would permit such barbarity.

"Haha... Then how do you explain the birth rate figures of muslims in Europe you keep insisting on I guess you put your foot in your mouth this time"

You kept asking me for a source and I gave you the best information I could get. I'll stand by Brookings as authoritive. I know of no known source that would contradict their numbers.

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

Does it occur to anyone how barbaric is this method of slaughter? It reminds me of the time that Zarqawi sawed off the head of Nick Berg. All the time with a big smile on his face and laughing like a hyena. No western society would permit such barbarity.

How is halal slaughter barbaric? What do you think would be better? You can't drug the animal if it's going to be eaten. Electric stunners don't work very well and often leave the animal conscious when being drained.

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule

Does it occur to anyone how barbaric is this method of slaughter? It reminds me of the time that Zarqawi sawed off the head of Nick Berg. All the time with a big smile on his face and laughing like a hyena. No western society would permit such barbarity.

You've never seen me take an elk, legally. Or a hanging (slow strangulation was the normal result), or an electrocution.

Originally Posted by Jo Bennett

How is halal slaughter barbaric? What do you think would be better? You can't drug the animal if it's going to be eaten. Electric stunners don't work very well and often leave the animal conscious when being drained.

If he thinks that's barbaric, he's obviously never been inside a US slaughtering facility.

Originally Posted by georged

If he thinks that's barbaric, he's obviously never been inside a US slaughtering facility.

No I haven't but that is not a sanctioned religious activity as Islam dictates. That is merely human cruelty and ought to be punished by the full extent of the law. I do not condone cruelty to animals under any circumstance. Death should be instantaneous and painless.

Originally Posted by georged

You've never seen me take an elk, legally. Or a hanging (slow strangulation was the normal result), or an electrocution.

And you believe that is a good thing? I've killed several armadillos but it was quick and and deadly. I didn't feel particularly good doing that but they can't be allowed to destroy the environment or property. What you are doing is sport. I've never hunted in my life.

So you're saying that people shouldn't kill animals for food? That's a perfectly acceptable position. However, halal is no worse, and is probably better, than western slaughtering methods. The difficulty is that it needs to be done by a skilled slaughterman, or it does not work as it should. Western methods allow pretty much any mug to do it.

Originally Posted by Jo Bennett

So you're saying that people shouldn't kill animals for food? That's a perfectly acceptable position. However, halal is no worse, and is probably better, than western slaughtering methods. The difficulty is that it needs to be done by a skilled slaughterman, or it does not work as it should. Western methods allow pretty much any mug to do it.

Pneumatic sledgehammers set for semi-stun and a throat cut, so the heart will exhaust blood content while hanging. Don't forget we're very proud of our humanitarian traits.

Originally Posted by georged

Pneumatic sledgehammers set for semi-stun and a throat cut, so the heart will exhaust blood content while hanging. Don't forget we're very proud of our humanitarian traits.

I'm not here to argue that our method of slaughtering animals for our food is perfect. I am here to argue that the Islamic practice of torturing animals (and humans) is most assuredly inhumane.