Obamas plans for our future energy production

foundit66 · #16 (**permalink**) 11-03-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

Yes, it started under the Bush Administration of mostly democrats. Don't blame everything Bush though, 2/3s have to agree with him.

Do you think that the CAUSE of the current recession problems just started in early 2007, the ACTUAL time when the Democrats took over majority status from the Republicans???
You really don't know much about economic trends, do you. These things aren't hatched over-night, or even in just a matter of a few months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

This entire statement is just an attempt to divert attention from Osama to Bush.

No. It's an attempt to address you guys trying to blame Obama for a natural disaster that clearly started under Bush.

The problem is underway, and just cause a new president jumps in the middle of it DOES NOT mean that he caused it.

It's going to be several months before Obama's plans get implemented.
Probably several years before any economic impact is actually seen.
Yet you guys are biting at the bit to blame him for everything the minute he takes office...

If only you were as earnest or honest in your recognition of Bush's contribution to the current mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

If the coal industry goes bankrupt, a depression is inevitable.

Yes. And if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride...
IF being the operative term, with a ridiculously low probability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

If you would've taken the time to read the post, you would've understood that I was saying "Yes, it will cause a depression." He's trying to bankrupt the backbone of the economy in some areas! So if Osama gets in, you can thank him when you're jobless, starving, and homeless.

I am incredibly bored by somebody WHO DID NOT RECOGNIZE MY POINT complaining that I didn't see their point when I responded back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

Thanks for looking at the image. Rather than saying that they exist, provide them.

"provide them" what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

Of course, the media has been biased, and at this point the race is closer than ever.

You actually believe that???
Ethmi, look at the ACTUAL numbers.
Obama is still up by a huge margin.
They have been running virtually neck and neck in the past.

This race is closer than it was last week, but Obama is still far ahead.

foundit66 · #17 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 04:03 AM

To all you Obama bashers out there, people are sick and tired of your antics.
And they're not working either...

Take this thread for example.
Here is a statement from the United Mine Workers of America.

One would think that one main target which would be concerned over this "Obama statement" would be these guys.
But instead, they set the record straight, which should put you Obama bashers to shame. If you had the common sense to be embarrassed in the first place...

United Mine Workers of America (UMWA) International President Cecil E. Roberts issued the following statement today:

“Sen. John McCain and his running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin, have once again demonstrated that they are willing to say anything and do anything to win this election. Their latest twisting of the truth is about coal and some comments Sen. Obama made last January about the future use of coal in America.

“Here is what the McCain campaign left out of Sen. Obama’s actual words: ‘But this notion of no coal, I think, is an illusion. Because the fact of the matter is, is that right now we are getting a lot of our energy from coal. And China is building a coal-powered plant once a week. So what we have to do then is figure out how can we use coal without emitting greenhouse gases and carbon. And how can we sequester that carbon and capture it.’

“Sen. Obama has been consistent with that message not just in the coalfields, but everywhere else he goes as well. Despite what the McCain campaign and some far right-wing blogs would have Americans believe, Sen. Obama has been and remains a tremendous supporter of coal and the future of coal.

“I noted that Sen. McCain even went so far yesterday as to say he has always been a supporter of coal. I wonder, then, how he can justify his statement at a Senate hearing in 2000 that, ‘In a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely,’ and his leading role in sponsoring legislation in 2003 that would have wiped out 78 percent of all coal production in America?

“Fortunately, UMWA members, their families and their friends and neighbors in the coalfields know all too well what is going on here. They’re not going to fall for it, and we urge others throughout America who care about coal to review what the candidates’ records on coal actually are. We are confident that once they do, and once they see the many other benefits to working families of voting for Sen. Obama, they will make the right choice for themselves and their families

McCain campaign?s last minute distortion of Obama?s coal record an act of desperation | United Mine Workers of America

foundit66 · #18 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 04:31 AM

And let's not forget MCCAIN's record on this in the first place...
One recurring theme is for Obama bashers to attack Obama for reasons and standards that McCain and Palin would BOTH fail if applied to them...

GOP Senator: McCain "Will Put Coal Out Of Business"

Just out of curiousity, when the coal industry is still around after 8 years of Obama, will people be able to admit how wrong they were on all these absurd claims?
:rolls

Ethmi · #19 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

To all you Obama bashers out there, people are sick and tired of your antics.
And they're not working either...

Take this thread for example.
Here is a statement from the United Mine Workers of America.

One would think that one main target which would be concerned over this "Obama statement" would be these guys.
But instead, they set the record straight, which should put you Obama bashers to shame. If you had the common sense to be embarrassed in the first place...

United Mine Workers of America (UMWA) International President Cecil E. Roberts issued the following statement today:

“Sen. John McCain and his running mate, Gov. Sarah Palin, have once again demonstrated that they are willing to say anything and do anything to win this election. Their latest twisting of the truth is about coal and some comments Sen. Obama made last January about the future use of coal in America.

“Here is what the McCain campaign left out of Sen. Obama’s actual words: ‘But this notion of no coal, I think, is an illusion. Because the fact of the matter is, is that right now we are getting a lot of our energy from coal. And China is building a coal-powered plant once a week. So what we have to do then is figure out how can we use coal without emitting greenhouse gases and carbon. And how can we sequester that carbon and capture it.’

“Sen. Obama has been consistent with that message not just in the coalfields, but everywhere else he goes as well. Despite what the McCain campaign and some far right-wing blogs would have Americans believe, Sen. Obama has been and remains a tremendous supporter of coal and the future of coal.

“I noted that Sen. McCain even went so far yesterday as to say he has always been a supporter of coal. I wonder, then, how he can justify his statement at a Senate hearing in 2000 that, ‘In a perfect world we would like to transition away from coal entirely,’ and his leading role in sponsoring legislation in 2003 that would have wiped out 78 percent of all coal production in America?

“Fortunately, UMWA members, their families and their friends and neighbors in the coalfields know all too well what is going on here. They’re not going to fall for it, and we urge others throughout America who care about coal to review what the candidates’ records on coal actually are. We are confident that once they do, and once they see the many other benefits to working families of voting for Sen. Obama, they will make the right choice for themselves and their families

McCain campaign?s last minute distortion of Obama?s coal record an act of desperation | United Mine Workers of America

But we posted a vid earlier where Osama said that he would do this in one of his own speeches. He himself did this! But that doesn't support you, so I guess it's wrong...

He wrote a letter the NRA, that was a lie (and when the truth was told, he tried to suppress it)...

He told the Brady Bunch his true intent, which was in-line with his voting record...

It seems he lies through his teeth, telling people things that are in-line with thier personal opinions...

And obviously, he pulled the same trick with the coal workers.

When he speaks to NRA members, he says "I'm pro-gun."

When he speaks the the Brady Bunch, he says "I'm anti-gun."

When he speaks to environmentalist hippies, he says "I want to bankrupt the coal industry."

When he speaks to miners, he says "Just kidding."

Osama has always had a forked, silver tounge with he constantly uses to lie through is freaking teeth. He flip-flops constantly, only telling people what they want to hear. He has lied more times than I can count, and Biden is not much better.

Ethmi · #20 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

And let's not forget MCCAIN's record on this in the first place...
One recurring theme is for Obama bashers to attack Obama for reasons and standards that McCain and Palin would BOTH fail if applied to them...

GOP Senator: McCain "Will Put Coal Out Of Business"

Just out of curiousity, when the coal industry is still around after 8 years of Obama, will people be able to admit how wrong they were on all these absurd claims?
:rolls

This retard himself said "I'm gonna bankrupt the coal industry"! The only way in hell you could lie like this is if you ignored the OP.

Fishbulb · #21 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

This retard himself said "I'm gonna bankrupt the coal industry"! The only way in hell you could lie like this is if you ignored the OP.

He most certainly did not say "I'm gonna bankrupt the coal industry." He said that those that build coal plants that produce excessive levels of greenhouse gasses would go bankrupt. It's simple cap and trade, which gives incentives to those that find ways to pollute less, and makes it economically very difficult to continue polluting. If you want to discuss the merits of cap and trade, fine. But to claim that Obama wants to bankrupt the coal industry is false and misleading.

chester · #22 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

This retard himself said "I'm gonna bankrupt the coal industry"! The only way in hell you could lie like this is if you ignored the OP.

Just when did the Son-of-a-Bush

make this statement about the coal industry?

You righties had better get used to the phrase "President Obama". You'll be hearing it a lot for the next 8 years.

Ethmi · #23 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishbulb

He most certainly did not say "I'm gonna bankrupt the coal industry." He said that those that build coal plants that produce excessive levels of greenhouse gasses would go bankrupt. It's simple cap and trade, which gives incentives to those that find ways to pollute less, and makes it economically very difficult to continue polluting. If you want to discuss the merits of cap and trade, fine. But to claim that Obama wants to bankrupt the coal industry is false and misleading.

Where's the limit? How much is "too much"?

Ethmi · #24 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester

Just when did the Son-of-a-Bush

make this statement about the coal industry?

You righties had better get used to the phrase "President Obama". You'll be hearing it a lot for the next 8 years.

The fat lady hasn't sung yet. I was refering to Osama, not Bush.

foundit66 · #25 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

But we posted a vid earlier where Osama said that he would do this in one of his own speeches. He himself did this! But that doesn't support you, so I guess it's wrong...

Bullspit Ethmi. Don't make up quotes.
1) It was NOT a video. It was an audio file that was cut and pasted. And conveniently, IMMEDIATELY after the item of interest was said the audio file was cut. We do NOT have the follow-on comments.
WHY? WHY did they stop us from hearing what he had to say next?

2) It wasn't in a speech.
It was in an interview.
And the whole interview is available online.
This article is demonstrating that there is MORE CONTEXT that people are cutting out of his speech to make it sound like he said something bad.

3) He talked about problems with BUILDING NEW plants.
He never said he was going to bring down the entire industry.

4) MCCAIN has been shown to SUPPORT what Obama WAS ACTUALLY proposing.
But of course you guys ignore that, don't you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

He wrote a letter the NRA, that was a lie (and when the truth was told, he tried to suppress it)...
He told the Brady Bunch his true intent, which was in-line with his voting record...

This is dealt with elsewhere, and you're relying on other lies to try to pass this junk off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

It seems he lies through his teeth, telling people things that are in-line with thier personal opinions...

No, Ethmi, his opponents lie through their teeth.
And then they refuse to deal with the truth when it is offered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

When he speaks to environmentalist hippies, he says "I want to bankrupt the coal industry."

QUIT MAKING UP QUOTES.
Quote EXACTLY what he said, IN CONTEXT, or don't even try...
You guys are so filthily dishonest its repugnant!

foundit66 · #26 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethmi

Where's the limit? How much is "too much"?

Why don't you ask your buddy McCain?
MCCAIN SUPPORTS the type of restrictions Obama was ACTUALLY talking about?

WHY can't we get a McCain supporter to HONESTLY discuss these issues?
WHY can't we get a McCain supporter to HONESTLY discuss these issues?
WHY can't we get a McCain supporter to HONESTLY discuss these issues?
WHY??????

And repeatedly calling "Obama" with the mocking "Osama" only demonstrates how low the attacks are against Obama.
If somebody were to refer to Bush as "the Nazi", it would demonstrate unbridled hatred that limits the credibility.
But the Obama-haters can't help but demonstrate exactly how far their hate goes...

Ethmi · #27 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

Why don't you ask your buddy McCain?
MCCAIN SUPPORTS the type of restrictions Obama was ACTUALLY talking about?

Source? Thought not.

Quote:

WHY can't we get a McCain supporter to HONESTLY discuss these issues?
WHY can't we get a McCain supporter to HONESTLY discuss these issues?
WHY can't we get a McCain supporter to HONESTLY discuss these issues?
WHY??????

Why do you have to have eleventy question marks at the end of each question? Why is everyone you debate predictabley "evasive" or dishonest? Why do they all happne to pull the useless evasion that you just did? You should work for head-on.

Head on, applied directly to the forehead.
Head on, applied directly to the forehead.
Head on, applied directly to the forehead...

Quote:

And repeatedly calling "Obama" with the mocking "Osama" only demonstrates how low the attacks are against Obama.
If somebody were to refer to Bush as "the Nazi", it would demonstrate unbridled hatred that limits the credibility.
But the Obama-haters can't help but demonstrate exactly how far their hate goes...

Yes, but Chester's constant "McStain" and "son-of-a-Bush" are fine and dandy, isn't it? Why aren't you screaming at him? Why is it that you want us to respect Osama, but you and your side have blatantly demonstrated that you have no respect for McCain?

And finally, this shnap you posted is cute, but it doesn't really answer the question I asked, does it? Try to answer. Try to point to the ceiling that Osama was refering to. Try to tell us where he thinks the limit is. Try to tell us how much is "too much". Until then, anything you say is useless.

CUNxTime · #28 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowPikachu

Wow, this is the guy that might get elected? It'll be a sad day for americans especially the lower and middle class.

I really don't see this "plan" going over so well. I personally see:

1. Bankrupting companies and leading to a sudden drop off of companies providing electricity leaving millions in the dark, or

2. Those companies hiking their prices and passing it off to the customer - that precious middle class person Obama claims he wants to protect and help out, causing even more economic difficulties for America. Or,

3. Companies reduce production so they are charged less, leading to drop in supply eading to rolling brownouts, etc. Or,

4. A combination of the three.

I still think McCain's going to take it. I can't force myself to believe that the US has become a place that would elect a person who hates capitalism, hates private property rights, has anti-American friends. I can't believe that people no longer believe in working for their own betterment, and I can't believe that the press is a willing accomplice in it.

The silver lining in an Obama win is that when his BS #### backfires he'll set the liberals back for a generation. Also, we won't have to hear Jesse et al squawking about racist America.

TRIGGER · #29 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 04:37 PM

In general hasn't high voter turn out mostly favored the republicans?

Ethmi · #30 (**permalink**) 11-04-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

Bullspit Ethmi. Don't make up quotes.
1) It was NOT a video. It was an audio file that was cut and pasted. And conveniently, IMMEDIATELY after the item of interest was said the audio file was cut. We do NOT have the follow-on comments.
WHY? WHY did they stop us from hearing what he had to say next?

Does this mean that it's automatically innaccurate? Thought not. You defended to the death that Palin supported the vile shouts from the very back of her audience, but if you watch the vid, it's obvious that she didn't hear it. Anyhow, you provided in three.

Quote:

2) It wasn't in a speech.
It was in an interview.
And the whole interview is available online.
This article is demonstrating that there is MORE CONTEXT that people are cutting out of his speech to make it sound like he said something bad.

If this is true, then provide it.

Quote:

3) He talked about problems with BUILDING NEW plants.
He never said he was going to bring down the entire industry.

Ahhh, did he? He prompted for "better coal". This project of his would raise taxes, further diminishing CEO incentive. It's odd that many who want to start their own business also want to vote for Osama. People want to start a business. When that option (or delusion) is no longer on the table, then they scream for the government to lower their taxes. I will once again ask the question that you evaded: Where's the ceiling?

Quote:

4) MCCAIN has been shown to SUPPORT what Obama WAS ACTUALLY proposing.
But of course you guys ignore that, don't you...

What reason have I to refute it if you don't even support it?

Quote:

This is dealt with elsewhere, and you're relying on other lies to try to pass this junk off

So far, you've done nothing to support this except scream "YOU'RE WRONG!!! YOU'RE WRONG!!!!!"

Quote:

No, Ethmi, his opponents lie through their teeth.
And then they refuse to deal with the truth when it is offered.

And what is this "truth" you speak of? Or does it exist?

Quote:

QUIT MAKING UP QUOTES.
Quote EXACTLY what he said, IN CONTEXT, or don't even try...
You guys are so filthily dishonest its repugnant!

It seems everyone you debate is predictabley dishonest or evasive. Are you so desperate? Second, stop shouting. This is a debate forum, not a place to scream and bitch and say that people are wrong and stupid. If you want to do that, go to a noob site like speakout. You've misquoted me before. Do you forget so soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foundit's misquotation of my words that essentially meant the same thing, but irritated me anyway :wink:

Even the "Palin's a racist screamers, blah, blah, blah...

What you did to me is what I did to Obama. Both were misquoted, but the implications were the same. But this won't satisfy you to the point where you omit what I say. So [quote=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ]listen up.[/url] In foundit code, any link means "Omit this text."

"So if somebody wants to build a coal power plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged for the huge amounts of greenhouse gas that's being emitted."

Do you have any idea how much gases are emitted from those places? Do you have any idea how much that would cost? Coal won't be clean enough for the companies to even break even for years! In the mean time, we're starving, homeless, and unemployed! Don't you care about the nation?

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