Originally Posted by CCR1994

What about schools where students go through metal detectors to detect weapons? Really makes one feel safe doesn't it?

Yeah, it does make one feel safe. It shows that there was a violence problem at the s chool and that authorities took the initiative to begin preventing further problems.

Originally Posted by kaiathepirate

Yeah, it does make one feel safe. It shows that there was a violence problem at the s chool and that authorities took the initiative to begin preventing further problems.

Would you want your child attending a school where metal detectors were installed? I wouldn't feel safe knowing that the authorities believe some nuts are trying to smuggle weapons into the school building.

I wouldn't feel safe knowing that the authorities believe some nuts are trying to smuggle weapons into the school building.

or that the authorities think there is a slim chance of something happning, but know if anything would happen the schools would be sued for not doing everything up to and beyond reason to "protect" the kids.

school uniforms are a good thing because it can help give the students more time for schoolwork or rest from schoolwork. Rather than going clothes shopping or looking for something to wear in the morning, a student can do homework, and just find the uniform, throw it on, and go to school

Originally Posted by Mr Jack

Uniform sends a single, strong message - we care more about how you look than what you can do. Is that the message we want in schools?

I agree.

School uniforms aren't needed. Kids should be able to express themselves. You cant say if kids wear clothes for work they Will work harder, and vice versa "play" clothes would make them "play" harder if you will. That statement can not be proven and is merley an opinion.

As for "time". So since they cant choose what to wear kids will make even more of an effort to look good, spending extra time on hair,body etc. Is this assumtion not as beleivable as yours? Just because they wouldnt beable to choose what to wear doesnt mean they(kids) will devote all that time to their homework.

"Style" is important to kids. It allows students to express themselves. Sure thats not the only way to express oneself as the original poster said, but why take away that?

Originally Posted by WhiteFalcon

"Style" is important to kids. It allows students to express themselves. Sure thats not the only way to express oneself as the original poster said, but why take away that?

Do you not accept that "style" concerns are a distraction from more substantive personal growth? Since kids tend to dress as to align themselves with a group they identify with, how does this contribute to the development of their individuality? Do adults that wear professional uniforms have an inability to express themselves? Don't buy into the hype.

Hmm, school uniforms were always argued to me as an equality issue. Not all students can afford to be stylish.

Originally Posted by wilted_laughter

Hmm, school uniforms were always argued to me as an equality issue. Not all students can afford to be stylish.

Another very valid reason.

Originally Posted by emclean

that would depend on what the legal guardens say. a large part of why the students can be treated in the way they have been is (A) they are not adults yet, and are not consitered able to make some of the decisions, (B) the schools have to act in ways to limit there liabilty and (C) the big one, they are not violating any rights with the serches, the students consented to them by going to school. i know :they are required to go", whll no they are not, they are requirered to be schooled till they are 16, but there is nothing saying they have to go to the public school building, and attent those classes.

For all legal purposes, they are forced to go to public schools. Unless they can afford private school or the parents can home-school they are stuck. I'm not sure but I think for legal purposes the argument can be made that kids are forced to go to public schools.

The thing you didn't mention was loco parentis, basically the school is acting as a parent or guardian while the child is at school and since a parent or guardian can search them so can the school. Not saying I agree (I'm kind of on the edge here, I think with reasonable suspicion they should be able to search, but not randomly) but that's the way the law is interpreted.

Originally Posted by sinjin

Do you not accept that "style" concerns are a distraction from more substantive personal growth? Since kids tend to dress as to align themselves with a group they identify with, how does this contribute to the development of their individuality?

Not Everyone will dress to align with the "fad" if you will. Sure "style" can be expensive and can be main stream. Kids dress to what they want. Being able to dress how kids would like and enjoy gives them a little freedom. Let me ask you this. How do school uniforms contribute to the development of kids individuality?

Originally Posted by sinjin

Do adults that wear professional uniforms have an inability to express themselves? Don't buy into the hype.

Did I say that uniforms would create an inability to express themselves? No, dont put words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by WhiteFalcon

How do school uniforms contribute to the development of kids individuality?

By making your individuality independent of your outward appearance, meaning from the inside, the part that stays with you for life, the part that we would all like to be judged by, your character.

Did I say that uniforms would create an inability to express themselves? No, dont put words in my mouth.

What you said was:

Originally Posted by WhiteFalcon

School uniforms aren't needed. Kids should be able to express themselves.

I asked how do uniforms prevent expression?
No need for the "tone" kid.

But to a lot of people appearance is a matter of self expression. Are they wrong? Are they then incomplete human beings? What is wrong with self expression through appearance? In my personal experience I have to cut my hair for work, I hate it, I think the styles to which I'm limited to are retarded so I shave my head. I feel that my right to express myself is being taken away, and that I'm forcing to settle for an alternative that makes me unhappy.

I went to a Catholic school for 3 years, had to buy their uniforms which I never wore outside of school. So for parents who don't have the money to spend on buying their children the cloths they want, thats an additional financial burden. I don't feel that uniforms in any way prevented people from trying to distinguish themselves through appearance, and I mean that in the negative way. In the sense that those with money, and "a sense of style" would still try and out do everyone else, but for people whose outlets of expression fall outside of the dress code they are denied their individuality.

A reference was made about trying to make schools in the United States "successful" in the same way schools in Asian nations are successful. If thats really the case then we might want to take a look at the products of that kind of environment, I know several people of Asian descent, and most of them say they hate working for Asian employers, and the ones who do live in Asian countries aren't very happy with their working conditions. Its a very strict and uncaring culture, and this isn't true just in school, its true also in the work place. Do we want our kids to grow up to have that to look forward to? Why would we take away one of the advantages this nation has, in order to try and compete on someone else's level?

I'd like to end by saying that I don't think uniforms are a good idea, and I don't think they're a solution, just another half-measure that tries to make the government take over certain jobs and responsibilities of parents.

Originally Posted by sinjin

By making your individuality independent of your outward appearance, meaning from the inside, the part that stays with you for life, the part that we would all like to be judged by, your character.

So your saying that kids could not express their "individuality" in any other way if they could wear what they want. Cmon, kids express their "individuality and are "judged" by their character without uniforms just as much.

Originally Posted by sinjin

What you said was:

I asked how do uniforms prevent expression?
No need for the "tone" kid.

The dont prevent all "expression". It prevents the "outward" expression . It also may prevent som "confidence" to some kids. There are many kids that feel "confident" and feel good when they have clothes on that they enoy.

Originally Posted by WhiteFalcon

So your saying that kids could not express their "individuality" in any other way if they could wear what they want. Cmon, kids express their "individuality and are "judged" by their character without uniforms just as much.

They dont prevent all "expression". It prevents the "outward" expression . It also may prevent som "confidence" to some kids. There are many kids that feel "confident" and feel good when they have clothes on that they enoy.

We are only talking about emphasis and focus not absolutes.

Being confident in yourself because of your clothing? Superficial but understandable. "Feeling good" is just dandy but secondary to having skills.