Originally Posted by Easyrider

Letting an uncircumcised Philistine loose with the Word of God is hilarious.

What is hilarious is that you cannot counter it. That is the difference between somebody like me, who reads the bible and studies what is there, and somebody like you or satan, who quotes it to their own ends. All this flopping around like a fish out of water that you have been doing, the lies, the red herrings, just expose what a spiritually corrupt fool you are.

You still trying to tell me the Sodomites weren't engaged in unbiblical and deviant homosexual relations? And that they didn't try to gay-rape the angels? What planet are you living on? Where do you think the word Sodomy comes from, nitwit? And you think angels engage in gay sex? Your theology is so far out in left field that I doubt you will ever find your way back to reality.

The word sodomy comes from the 6th century AD when the Emperor Justinian use it in his Corpus iuris civilis (body of civil law). Prior to that date, nobody had ever used it in that manner that we are aware of. In fact, the idea that gay sex was one of the primary reasons that Sodom was destroyed was a brand new theory put forth by Justinian. He used it to prosecute his political opponents when he could not find any other charges to lay against them because at the time gay sex was common.

The church actually argued AGAINST Justinians theory and it would have been forgotten to history except that a monk known as Benedict the Levi used it in the Pseudo-Isidorean Decretals. The Pseudo-Isidorean Decretals were FAKE documents prepared by a group of Frankish monks that were supposed to have been the writings of early popes. They were FAKE. They were a LIE. He used Justinians theory in FAKE writings that he attributed to Charlemagne. He also broadened the definition to all sexual acts not related to procreation (yep, that blowjob was sodomy).

That forgery was used to justify the killings during the inquisition, easy, possibly the darkest period in the history of Christianity, and despite the fact that we know ABSOLUTELY that they were nothing more than forgeries, you are using them as a pillar of your faith.

The reality, easy, is that we cant be sure what happened when the angels when to soddom. The story as you claim it is meant to be read makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You would have to be dumber than a sack of hammers to come to the conclusions that you have. It simply does not make sense.

There is another explanation that makes more sense than either that we have looked at. It requires a little better translation than the NIV, which, as we have already covered, is known to be the least accurate translation. Here is the story from the NASB, which is recognized as the MOST accurate translation:

Genesis 19

1 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 And he said, “Now behold, my lords, please turn aside into your servant’s house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.” They said however, “No, but we shall spend the night in the square.” 3 Yet he urged them strongly, so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. 4 Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; 5 and they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.” 6 But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. 8 Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof.”

Look at the bolded part. ALL THE PEOPLE FROM EVERY QUARTER. Check the original text....it is there. In every single version of the original text that we have. In fact, the original hebrew is anshei ha'ir, anshei S'dom, which can translate as EITHER "the men of the city, the men of sodom" OR "the people of the city, the people of sodom". However, "all the people from every quarter" can not possibly be translated to mean anything BUT "all the people".

That changes the story COMPLETELY. It is not just every man in town that is standing outside the house, it is every PERSON in town. That means that either the men are surrounding the house, while the women and children stand beyond. OR, they were just saying "all the people, all the people of sodom, all the people from every quarter". I have to admit, I was kind of trying to lead you here with the "every man in sodom was gay" thing, but since your eyes and ears have been closed by satan, it flew right past you.

Regardless of which translation you prefer (personally I feel the second makes more sense), the fact is that ALL THE PEOPLE of Sodom were there. So, for this to be about gay sex, the men of sodom would have pretty much had to have invited their wives and children (and it does specify children) to a giant homosexual rape party. Does that still sound reasonable to you?

Then, in your understanding of the story, offers his daughters to this gang of men who are just hell bent on doing some homosexual raping. Now, I am not gay, but even I know enough to know that you are not going to placate hundreds of homosexuals that are just hell bent on raping some men by offering them women. Gay men dont have sex with women. That is what makes them gay men. If the men in front of lots house actually intended to rape the visitors, it would have made a LOT more sense for Lot to either offer himself as a replacement, OR offer his wifes fiances, which under the law at the time he COULD have done. But, instead of offering the gay men different men to rape, he tries to pass women off on them. That simply does not make sense.

It is also worth noting that the term used in the original text is yada...to know or to be familiar with. It is used as a euphamism for sex in about 10 places in the bible, for example it is used when they say that "adam knew his wife and she concieved". The rest of the time it is used like "God knew David" (hint...god did NOT have sex with david). The other 10 times it is used in the bible in regards to sex it is basically a discreet way used by the narrator to describe sex.

The problem is that if your version of the story is correct (frankly a version that, by now, looks pretty silly) the there was a mob standing around lots house hell bent on anally raping a couple of strangers, yelling "send them out so we can have some private grown up time" (my wifes euphemism for sex if she is afraid that little ears might be listening). This would have to be the most polite rape mob in the history of the planet earth. There are plenty of hebrew verbs to describe sex. Agav is used in the bible, and is at least somewhat vulgar (not quite so vulgar as the F word, but somewhere along the same lines as "bone" or "bang")

I have looked into early Jewish texts, basically on the logic that this was essentially a Jewish story out of the Torah, so they should understand it. None of the early Jewish authors saw fit to comment on exactly what the people of Sodom intended to do with the strangers...others were pretty much supposed to already know (back to the problem with the story...after being handed down for generations verbally it does not make sense anymore...at the point that, for example, the Talmud was written, the story would have been much fresher and probably actually still made sense).

One thing that we CAN establish is that nowhere in the early jewish writings do they ever equate Sodom and Gomorrah with homosexuality. In the Mishnah (Avont 5:13) they say "He who says, "What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours"--this is the common type, though some say that this is the type of Sodom." This very clearly indicates that according to the early jews, the people who would have been familiar with the unadulterated version of the story, the sin of Sodom was an economic one...the same as that put forth by Ezekiel.

But, any reasonable person would have already come to that conclusion since the angels were sent because god had ALREADY DECIDED to destroy Sodom, meaning that whatever the people of Sodom meant to do to them could not have been the reason for its destruction...a decision made before it ever happened.

I actually have my own theory about what the people of Sodom intended to do to the angels that makes sense under ALL the biblical passages and can be supported historically. I think the people of Sodom intended to eat the strangers. The people of Sodom were Canaanites. There are 2 other places in the bible where you see the phraseology used in Jude for "strange flesh" or "different flesh". The first is in relation to angels having sex with human women to create the nephilim. The second is in referring to cannibalism among the Canaanites.

That actually explains the entire thing and ties up every loose end, including why it was written so obtusely. Cannibalism was so taboo among the Jews that they were not supposed to even discuss it, much less actually write about it. It has been suggested that the prohibition against eating pork is because pork resembles cooked human so closely. These people were EXTREMELY anti cannibalism.

That is why when they talk about Canaanites indulging in cannibalism they resort to talking about eating "strange flesh" as opposed to just coming out and saying "they ate babies". Jude would have known this, and been bound by the same taboo, thus his use of the same phrase...one that his contemporaries would have immediately recognized as a euphemism for cannibalism. That also explains why early jewish authors did not delve into the story. They, too, would have been bound by the taboo. It would not, however, be unusual for them to expect that the readers in such a case would already know and understand what was up, people tend to remember the cannibal neighbors.

Originally Posted by daewoo

You just have one horse dung argument after another. Chief among them is this dog:

Look at the bolded part. ALL THE PEOPLE FROM EVERY QUARTER. Check the original text....it is there. In every single version of the original text that we have. In fact, the original hebrew is anshei ha'ir, anshei S'dom, which can translate as EITHER "the men of the city, the men of sodom" OR "the people of the city, the people of sodom". However, "all the people from every quarter" can not possibly be translated to mean anything BUT "all the people".

That changes the story COMPLETELY. It is not just every man in town that is standing outside the house, it is every PERSON in town. That means that either the men are surrounding the house, while the women and children stand beyond. OR, they were just saying "all the people, all the people of sodom, all the people from every quarter". I have to admit, I was kind of trying to lead you here with the "every man in sodom was gay" thing, but since your eyes and ears have been closed by satan, it flew right past you.

Ever heard of hyperbole, O spawn of Satan?

From the website noted below:

Pro-Gay Argument #3:

The real sins of Sodom, according to Ezekiel 16:49, were that it was "arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." These have nothing to do with homosexuality.

Response:

Again, the argument is partially true. When Sodom was destroyed, homosexuality was only a part-or symptom-of its wickedness. Romans Chapter One gives a similar illustration, describing the generally corrupt condition of humanity, while citing homosexuality as a symptom of that corruption. But Ezekiel also says of the Sodomites: "They were haughty and did detestable things before me" (16:50). The sexual nature of these "detestable" things is suggested in 2 Peter 2:6-7:

If he [God] condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men...

And again in Jude 7:

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Dr. Bruce Metzger of Princeton Theological Seminary mentions other references to Sodom's sexual immorality in 3 Maccabees 2:5: "the people of Sodom who acted arrogantly, who were notorious for their vices." And again in Jubilees 16:6: "the uncleanness of the Sodomites."[79]

The pro-gay interpretation of Sodom's destruction has some merit: homosexual rape was attempted, and the Sodomites were certainly guilty of sins other than homosexuality. But in light of the number of men willing to join in the rape, and the many other references, both Biblical and extra-Biblical, to Sodom's sexual sins, it is likely homosexuality was widely practiced among the Sodomites. It is also likely that the sin for which they are named was one of many reasons judgment finally fell on them.

Now, are you saying the Sodomites didn't practice Homosexual sex? Are you kidding me?

The second-century BC Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs labels the Sodomites 'sexually promiscuous' (Testimony of Benjamin 9:1) and refers to 'Sodom, which departed from the order of nature' (Testament of Nephtali 3:4). From the same time period, Jubilees specifies that the Sodomites were 'polluting themselves and fornicating in their flesh' (16:5, compare 20:5-6). Both Philo and Josephus plainly name same-sex relations as the characteristic view of Sodom.[78] Responding to Pro-Gay Theology

Nice try, O Spawn of Satan!

Originally Posted by Easyrider

Ever heard of hyperbole, O spawn of Satan?

Most of your posts are some mixture of hyperbole, ignorant, and dishonesty

From the website noted below:

Again, the argument is partially true. When Sodom was destroyed, homosexuality was only a part-or symptom-of its wickedness. Romans Chapter One gives a similar illustration, describing the generally corrupt condition of humanity, while citing homosexuality as a symptom of that corruption. But Ezekiel also says of the Sodomites: "They were haughty and did detestable things before me" (16:50). The sexual nature of these "detestable" things is suggested in 2 Peter 2:6-7:

If he [God] condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men...

I dont see any reference to gay sex in the text he quotes from 2 peter. When I hear "the filthy lives of lawless men" gay sex does not immediately leap to mind, especially when you know we are talking about a society of cannibals who routinely burned babies alive as offerings to Molech.

And again in Jude 7:

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

We have already covered Jude 7.

Dr. Bruce Metzger of Princeton Theological Seminary mentions other references to Sodom's sexual immorality in 3 Maccabees 2:5: "the people of Sodom who acted arrogantly, who were notorious for their vices." And again in Jubilees 16:6: "the uncleanness of the Sodomites."[79]

Neither of these mentions gay sex.

The pro-gay interpretation of Sodom's destruction has some merit: homosexual rape was attempted, and the Sodomites were certainly guilty of sins other than homosexuality. But in light of the number of men willing to join in the rape, and the many other references, both Biblical and extra-Biblical, to Sodom's sexual sins, it is likely homosexuality was widely practiced among the Sodomites. It is also likely that the sin for which they are named was one of many reasons judgment finally fell on them.

Easy...look at the portion I highlighted above. The sin for which they are named? Sodom was Sodom 1000 years before anybody ever thought to attach a sexual meaning to the term. Sodom was not named for the sin. How are we supposed to take anything this retard says seriously?

Now, are you saying the Sodomites didn't practice Homosexual sex? Are you kidding me?

I am sure some of them did. So do some americans...and an awful lot of clergy....

The second-century BC Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs labels the Sodomites 'sexually promiscuous' (Testimony of Benjamin 9:1) and refers to 'Sodom, which departed from the order of nature' (Testament of Nephtali 3:4). From the same time period, Jubilees specifies that the Sodomites were 'polluting themselves and fornicating in their flesh' (16:5, compare 20:5-6). Both Philo and Josephus plainly name same-sex relations as the characteristic view of Sodom.[78] Responding to Pro-Gay Theology

Jubilees 16:5:

And in this month the Lord executed his judgments on Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Zeboim, and all the region of the Jordan, and He burned them with fire and brimstone, and destroyed them until this day, even as [lo] I have declared unto thee all their works, that they are wicked and sinners exceedingly, and that they defile themselves and commit fornication in their flesh, and work uncleanness on the earth.

Jubilees 20:4-6

And if any woman or maid commit fornication amongst you, burn her with fire and let them not commit fornication with her after their eyes and their heart; and let them not take to themselves wives from the daughters of Canaan; for the seed of Canaan will be rooted out of the land.
And he told them of the judgment of the giants, and the judgment of the Sodomites, how they had been judged on account of their wickedness, and had died on account of their fornication, and uncleanness, and mutual corruption through fornication.

'And guard yourselves from all fornication and uncleanness,
And from all pollution of sin,

Still not seeing anything here about homosexuality. I can certainly see why he limited the quote to 5-6, since if you go from 4-6 above you can see that they specifically talk about men taking wives from the women of canannites, which indicates that this is not about gay sex at all. HEY, he uses the same dishonest tricks as you, Easy. Do you guys have some kind of club or something?

Nice try, O Spawn of Satan!

Nice try, you retarded freak, but all you have done here is basically reposted somebody else making the same argument that you have. Granted he used more biblical quotes than you, but as I pointed out above, none of them actually support his view, unless you are already obsessed with homosexuality (and I have got to say, easy, you spend more time thinking about gay sex than any straight man should...just sayin...)

Nothing in the above does anything at all to discredit or disprove my argument. Every point made I have already thoroughly debunked. This entire post was just a waste of bandwidth. And as a side note, it is REALLY pathetic that you could not answer my arguments on your own and had to resort to cutting and pasting from some other guys web page.

I think you need to familiarize yourself a little better with the people of Sodom, Easy, so you can understand how laughably stupid your argument is that the primary reason god destroyed them was gay sex.

Besides the fact that there was a 30 ft high statue of Molech in the center of town where they burned babies alive, they were cannibals. In fact the word "cannibal" is based on Canaanite and unlike using "sodomite" to denote gay sex, which did not happen until hundreds of years later, they were using cannibal to denote the eating of human flesh before jesus was born.

Some more examples:

The men of Sodom waxed haughty only on account of the good which the Holy One, blessed be He, had lavished upon them...They said: Since there cometh forth bread out of (our) earth, and it hath the dust of gold, why should we suffer wayfarers, who come to us only to deplete our wealth. Come, let us abolish the practice of travelling in our land...

There were four judges in Sodom named Shakrai (Liar), Shakurai (Awful Liar), Zayyafi (Forger), and Mazle Dina (Perverter of Justice). Now if a man assaulted his neighbour's wife and bruised her, they would say to the husband, Give her to him, that she may become pregnant for thee. If one cut off the ear of his neighbour's XXX, they would order, Give it to him until it grows again.

If one wounded his neighbour they would say to the victim, Give him a fee for bleeding thee [bloodletting was sometimes considered medically beneficial in those days; Here the Sodomite judge cruelly ruled that if one beats you until you bleed, you owe your attacker money for this "beneficial" medical service"...]

... they had beds upon which travellers slept. If the guest was too long they shortened him by lopping off his feet; if too short, they stretched him out...

If a poor man happened to come there, every resident gave him a denar [coin], upon which he wrote his name, but no bread was given [the store owners recognized such coins, and refused toa accept them]. When he died, each came and took back his (denar)...

A certain maiden gave some bread to a poor man, hiding it in a pitcher. On the matter becoming known, they daubed her with honey and placed her on the parapet of the wall, and the bees came and consumed her. Thus it is written, And the Lord said, The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah, because it is great (rabbah): whereupon Rab Judah commented in Rab's name: on account of the maiden (ribah).

Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 109a

Said R Levi, Even if I wanted to keep silent, the requirement of justice for a certain girl will not allow me to keep silent. There was the case of two girls, who went down to draw water from the well. One said to her friend, Why are you pale? The other said, All the food is gone from our house and we are ready to die. What did the other do? She filled the jug with flour and exchanged it for her own. Each took the one of the other. When the Sodomites found out about it, they took the girl (who had shared the food) and burned her. Said the Holy One, blessed be He, Even if I wanted to keep silent, the requirement of justice for a certain girl will not allow me to keep silent. What is written is not, 'In accord with their cry', but, 'according to her cry', referring in particular to the girl.

Genesis Rabbah, Parashah 49:6

yea...definitely gay sex was the gravest of their sins.....

Originally Posted by daewoo

Most of your posts are some mixture of hyperbole, ignorant, and dishonesty

From the website noted below:

I dont see any reference to gay sex in the text he quotes from 2 peter. When I hear "the filthy lives of lawless men" gay sex does not immediately leap to mind, especially when you know we are talking about a society of cannibals who routinely burned babies alive as offerings to Molech.

We have already covered Jude 7.

Neither of these mentions gay sex.

Easy...look at the portion I highlighted above. The sin for which they are named? Sodom was Sodom 1000 years before anybody ever thought to attach a sexual meaning to the term. Sodom was not named for the sin. How are we supposed to take anything this retard says seriously?

I am sure some of them did. So do some americans...and an awful lot of clergy....

Jubilees 16:5:

Jubilees 20:4-6

Still not seeing anything here about homosexuality. I can certainly see why he limited the quote to 5-6, since if you go from 4-6 above you can see that they specifically talk about men taking wives from the women of canannites, which indicates that this is not about gay sex at all. HEY, he uses the same dishonest tricks as you, Easy. Do you guys have some kind of club or something?
Nice try, you retarded freak, but all you have done here is basically reposted somebody else making the same argument that you have. Granted he used more biblical quotes than you, but as I pointed out above, none of them actually support his view, unless you are already obsessed with homosexuality (and I have got to say, easy, you spend more time thinking about gay sex than any straight man should...just sayin...)

Nothing in the above does anything at all to discredit or disprove my argument. Every point made I have already thoroughly debunked. This entire post was just a waste of bandwidth. And as a side note, it is REALLY pathetic that you could not answer my arguments on your own and had to resort to cutting and pasting from some other guys web page.

I think you need to familiarize yourself a little better with the people of Sodom, Easy, so you can understand how laughably stupid your argument is that the primary reason god destroyed them was gay sex.

Besides the fact that there was a 30 ft high statue of Molech in the center of town where they burned babies alive, they were cannibals. In fact the word "cannibal" is based on Canaanite and unlike using "sodomite" to denote gay sex, which did not happen until hundreds of years later, they were using cannibal to denote the eating of human flesh before jesus was born.

Some more examples:
yea...definitely gay sex was the gravest of their sins.....

You were already busted, you spiritually dead zombie. Nobody in their right mind is buying your revisionist horse manure.

By the way, gay sex is a perversion and an abomination in the Bible, and those who defend it are themselves spiritual Sodomites. So you're right at home with the rest of the Hell-bound carnal cretins.

Originally Posted by Easyrider

You were already busted, you spiritually dead zombie. Nobody in their right mind is buying your revisionist horse manure.

By the way, gay sex is a perversion and an abomination in the Bible, and those who defend it are themselves spiritual Sodomites. So you're right at home with the rest of the Hell-bound carnal cretins.

Translation: I got nothing!!!

Quick, throw in an empty threst.

Originally Posted by smiley

Translation: I got nothing!!!

Quick, throw in an empty threst.

Obviously you're oblivious to the truth yourself. But then that's what the Bible says about your mentality:

1 John 2:22 - Who is the liar? It is the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is an antichrist.

So now that we know who and what you are, there's no need to listen to more politically correct horse manure from you and those who look or think like you.

Originally Posted by Easyrider

Obviously you're oblivious to the truth yourself. But then that's what the Bible says about your mentality:

1 John 2:22 - Who is the liar? It is the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is an antichrist.

So now that we know who and what you are, there's no need to listen to more politically correct horse manure from you and those who look or think like you.

Again, why should I pay any heed to the bible? You got nothing.

Originally Posted by Easyrider

You were already busted, you spiritually dead zombie. Nobody in their right mind is buying your revisionist horse manure.

By the way, gay sex is a perversion and an abomination in the Bible, and those who defend it are themselves spiritual Sodomites. So you're right at home with the rest of the Hell-bound carnal cretins.

ROTFLMAO.

Smiley is right, Easy. This is pretty much akin to a 5 yr old shouting "dummy head" when they are proved wrong.

The fact is that I have proven pretty conclusively that your beliefs on this are unsupported by the bible and are WRONG. I have also shown pretty conclusively that your idea of a "biblical economy" would at the very least land us all in hell if it did not actually call down the wrath of god directly.

I suggest you spend some time reading Matthew 7, easy.

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

You have been hanging out in some pretty questionable orchards. You have perverted the word of god in the service of hate and persecution. You have perverted the word of god in the service of selfishness and greed.

Isaiah 44 also comes to mind:

18 They do not know, nor do they understand, for He has smeared over their eyes so that they cannot see and their hearts so that they cannot comprehend. 19 No one recalls, nor is there knowledge or understanding to say, “I have burned half of it in the fire and also have baked bread over its coals. I roast meat and eat it. Then I make the rest of it into an abomination, I fall down before a block of wood!” 20 He feeds on ashes; a deceived heart has turned him aside. And he cannot deliver himself, nor say, “Is there not a lie in my right hand?”

This is you, Easy. You have raised up a false religion...an idol...in the place of God. Even when somebody shows you the folly of your ways with the word of God and the teachings of Jesus, you still cannot bring yourself to turn away from the idol you have built for yourself.

I understand, easy. It is EASY to worship a god who does not expect much from you, a god with very few rules who sees cut throat capitalism as the ultimate divine economy and you can turn your back on the sick and the poor, shrug and say "not my problem" as long as you give a pathetic 10%. It is EASY to worship a god who dislikes the same people as you...I will admit, I am sometimes a little creeped out by gay people, too. It is EASY to worship a god whose only requirement for entry into heaven is a quick "I believe and am sorry for my sins".

That is why so many people worship at the same idol as you...because it is EASY.

It is a LOT harder to worship the god of the bible...the god of Abraham. According to him, the poor are, in fact, your personal responsibility. HE requires that you dedicate your heart, your mind, your body, and your possessions to his service. Worshiping the god of the bible means that you never actually get to OWN anything...you are just a custodian for all your wealth while you find the best ways to use it for HIS glory. Worshiping the god of the bible means you have to get over the creepiness factor of man on man action and make the decision to love gay people as your brothers even if you dont agree with their actions or life choices, and hope that the example you set through your life and gods love that you show them will lead them home. Worshiping the god of the bible means being the first to volunteer, the first to give, the first to care for those who need it. Worshiping the god of the bible means to never condemn and never stop loving and caring for those who hurt you or cause pain, because all men can be redeemed but only through gods love and understanding, never through harsh words. He has no megachurches, his priests wear rags, and his followers live lives of servitude to their fellow man for the glory of god.

It is not easy.

Oh, and as a side note to avoid any confusion, in Matthew 7, which I quote above, they are NOT talking about having sex with false prophets where they say "you will know them by their fruits", nor are they talking about having sex with fruits or trees.

Just thought I had better clear that up for those with poor reading comprehension.

Originally Posted by daewoo

It is a LOT harder to worship the god of the bible...the god of Abraham. According to him, the poor are, in fact, your personal responsibility. HE requires that you dedicate your heart, your mind, your body, and your possessions to his service. Worshiping the god of the bible means that you never actually get to OWN anything...you are just a custodian for all your wealth while you find the best ways to use it for HIS glory. Worshiping the god of the bible means you have to get over the creepiness factor of man on man action and make the decision to love gay people as your brothers even if you dont agree with their actions or life choices, and hope that the example you set through your life and gods love that you show them will lead them home. Worshiping the god of the bible means being the first to volunteer, the first to give, the first to care for those who need it. Worshiping the god of the bible means to never condemn and never stop loving and caring for those who hurt you or cause pain, because all men can be redeemed but only through gods love and understanding, never through harsh words. He has no megachurches, his priests wear rags, and his followers live lives of servitude to their fellow man for the glory of god.

A rousing speech, but you forgot one; to worship to god of the bible means you are a delusional nutcase. It means you think that an ancient pile of contradictions is gods gift and word to man, which means you think god is as crazy as you are.

The god of the old testament would kill people for less than looking at him the wrong way and would more likely be ordering you to kill someone and burn the bleeding corpse than help the poor.

Originally Posted by Freedom

A rousing speech, but you forgot one; to worship to god of the bible means you are a delusional nutcase. It means you think that an ancient pile of contradictions is gods gift and word to man, which means you think god is as crazy as you are.

The god of the old testament would kill people for less than looking at him the wrong way and would more likely be ordering you to kill someone and burn the bleeding corpse than help the poor.

There are down sides to everything.

Originally Posted by daewoo

ROTFLMAO.

Smiley is right, Easy. This is pretty much akin to a 5 yr old shouting "dummy head" when they are proved wrong.

The fact is that I have proven pretty conclusively that your beliefs on this are unsupported by the bible and are WRONG. I have also shown pretty conclusively that your idea of a "biblical economy" would at the very least land us all in hell if it did not actually call down the wrath of god directly.

I suggest you spend some time reading Matthew 7, easy.

You have been hanging out in some pretty questionable orchards. You have perverted the word of god in the service of hate and persecution. You have perverted the word of god in the service of selfishness and greed.

Isaiah 44 also comes to mind:

This is you, Easy. You have raised up a false religion...an idol...in the place of God. Even when somebody shows you the folly of your ways with the word of God and the teachings of Jesus, you still cannot bring yourself to turn away from the idol you have built for yourself.

I understand, easy. It is EASY to worship a god who does not expect much from you, a god with very few rules who sees cut throat capitalism as the ultimate divine economy and you can turn your back on the sick and the poor, shrug and say "not my problem" as long as you give a pathetic 10%. It is EASY to worship a god who dislikes the same people as you...I will admit, I am sometimes a little creeped out by gay people, too. It is EASY to worship a god whose only requirement for entry into heaven is a quick "I believe and am sorry for my sins".

That is why so many people worship at the same idol as you...because it is EASY.

It is a LOT harder to worship the god of the bible...the god of Abraham. According to him, the poor are, in fact, your personal responsibility. HE requires that you dedicate your heart, your mind, your body, and your possessions to his service. Worshiping the god of the bible means that you never actually get to OWN anything...you are just a custodian for all your wealth while you find the best ways to use it for HIS glory. Worshiping the god of the bible means you have to get over the creepiness factor of man on man action and make the decision to love gay people as your brothers even if you dont agree with their actions or life choices, and hope that the example you set through your life and gods love that you show them will lead them home. Worshiping the god of the bible means being the first to volunteer, the first to give, the first to care for those who need it. Worshiping the god of the bible means to never condemn and never stop loving and caring for those who hurt you or cause pain, because all men can be redeemed but only through gods love and understanding, never through harsh words. He has no megachurches, his priests wear rags, and his followers live lives of servitude to their fellow man for the glory of god.

It is not easy.

<Flush>

More horse manure from the radical left.

Here's one for you:

“It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, THE UNBELIEVING (that's you, Daewoo!) , the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

In fact you made that hit list in several different ways.

Repent, O Spawn of Satan!

1 John 2:22

Originally Posted by Easyrider

<Flush>

More horse manure from the radical left.

Here's one for you:

“It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, THE UNBELIEVING (that's you, Daewoo!) , the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

In fact you made that hit list in several different ways.

Really, Easy? Seriously? I did not make this stuff up...unlike you. What I have presented here comes directly from the bible, in full context, with no imaginative interpretations or unsupported assumptions made. That is why you have to resort to this pathetic foolishness....your lies and false faith cannot stand before the word of god.

You are literally calling the word of god horse manure, and then wagging your finger at me and telling ME that I will go to hell for being an unbeliever. That is the ultimate in foolishness.

You are truly pathetic.

Originally Posted by daewoo

Really, Easy? Seriously? I did not make this stuff up...unlike you. What I have presented here comes directly from the bible, in full context, with no imaginative interpretations or unsupported assumptions made. That is why you have to resort to this pathetic foolishness....your lies and false faith cannot stand before the word of god.

You are literally calling the word of god horse manure, and then wagging your finger at me and telling ME that I will go to hell for being an unbeliever. That is the ultimate in foolishness.

You are truly pathetic.

You're full of manure, just like your father, the devil.

I spent 5 years clothing and feeding the poor and preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ in a men's homeless shelter. And never accepted a penny for any of it. You spent the last five years running your big fat mouth and denying Christ. You Spawn of Satan. How then can you possibly be saved, unless you GET OFF YOUR THRONE AND LET CHRIST ON IT, and repent of your sins?

So repent, or you will indeed be a Hell-bound Christ denier!