Originally Posted by resist arrest

Those children are heroes! If someone invades my country I would use men, women, children, dogs, cats, horses, cows, bulls, and goats to repel the invaders.

Our leaders didn't understand this in 1968 in the jungle, and they still do not understand this in 2008 in the desert.

Originally Posted by resist arrest

Those children are heroes! If someone invades my country I would use men, women, children, dogs, cats, horses, cows, bulls, and goats to repel the invaders.

Yes, but this is from your point of veiw. It's just an opinion, and you really seem to favor communists. So tell me, would you say the same if the democracies you've been criticizing were invaded? Judging by the way you're accusing Bush of being a murderer and screaming for us to pull out, I feel I can safely assume that the answer is "no". You seem to think of us as monsters. And for a reality check, the North Vietnamese were the aggressors in the war. It all started with the attack on South Vietnam.

For another thing, you're sympathizing with enemies? That's very unpatriotic.

Originally Posted by chester

Our leaders didn't understand this in 1968 in the jungle, and they still do not understand this in 2008 in the desert.

Do you have a short term memory? Don't you remember the unprovoked attacks on Septemer 11, 2001?

Originally Posted by resist arrest

I live in Birmingham, Alabama. Americans exploited children in the past and do so in other countries where it's legal to do so but unethical and immoral.

If you're refering to China, it's a trade agreement. And while I do not condone of these 'priveleges', we're not in much of a position to scare the world anymore. Everyone knows that we're dependant on their goods.

Originally Posted by Ethmi

And for a reality check, the North Vietnamese were the aggressors in the war. It all started with the attack on South Vietnam.

For another thing, you're sympathizing with enemies? That's very unpatriotic.

You are a right-wing fanatic. Vietnam was a colony of the French. The U.S.A. aided the French in reconquering Vietnam after WW II by giving France aid (i.e. money, military equipment and intelligence). The French imperialists were defeated at Dien Bien Phu. Then comes in Uncle Sam and says, "Forget the fact that we helped the French reconquer you and make you into their colony again; we're here to promote democracy now." Even their puppet Diem was murdered by the Americans because he was such an embarassment. The workers of the world have no country. Revolution or death!!!! While the state exists there is no freedom, when there is freedom there will be no state. Lenin, The State and Revolution

The Impossible Victory: Vietnam by Howard Zinn

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Diem_dead.jpg

Originally Posted by resist arrest

You are a right-wing fanatic. Vietnam was a colony of the French. The U.S.A. aided the French in reconquering Vietnam after WW II by giving France aid (i.e. money, military equipment and intelligence). The French imperialists were defeated at Dien Bien Phu. Then comes in Uncle Sam and says, "Forget the fact that we helped the French reconquer you and make you into their colony again; we're here to promote democracy now." Even their puppet Diem was murdered by the Americans because he was such an embarassment. The workers of the world have no country. Revolution or death!!!! While the state exists there is no freedom, when there is freedom there will be no state. Lenin, The State and Revolution

The Impossible Victory: Vietnam by Howard Zinn

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Diem_dead.jpg

The USA never assisted (that is with significant manpower) the French in their reconquest of Vietnam. It was the Chinese with the Russians that began to escalate the whole thing. When that happened the USA decided to help with weapons to French army in the South, which would later end with French defeat. The French and Vietminh agreed to divide Vietnam in two (North and South) with the North being Communist and the South being in a similar situation like that in England (Prime Minister and King/Queen). After that the Emperor was deposed of with support of the US. The acts of the North Vietnamese (such as executing "class enemies") caused many to flee south. Of course the South wasn't innocent with it's president imprisoning those who were "accused" of being communists. Unfortunately this would all lead to war and lead to US involvement when the South had coup, with North taking advantage and escalating it even further. In the end neither government was good, but for you to some how suggest that the North was "trying" to liberate people is way too wishful. The realities are that both the North and South did some pretty despicable things.

Originally Posted by Charliegone

The USA never assisted (that is with significant manpower) the French in their reconquest of Vietnam. It was the Chinese with the Russians that began to escalate the whole thing. When that happened the USA decided to help with weapons to French army in the South, which would later end with French defeat. The French and Vietminh agreed to divide Vietnam in two (North and South) with the North being Communist and the South being in a similar situation like that in England (Prime Minister and King/Queen). After that the Emperor was deposed of with support of the US. The acts of the North Vietnamese (such as executing "class enemies") caused many to flee south. Of course the South wasn't innocent with it's president imprisoning those who were "accused" of being communists. Unfortunately this would all lead to war and lead to US involvement when the South had coup, with North taking advantage and escalating it even further. In the end neither government was good, but for you to some how suggest that the North was "trying" to liberate people is way too wishful. The realities are that both the North and South did some pretty despicable things.

If the North Vietnamese were so evil as you portray them why didn't the people use the war (which was destroying much of the country) to overthrow
the government. Instead the people rallied around their government to expel the invaders. You also forget that the communist were poised to win the elections that the U.S. prevented from taking place because the elections would have unified the whole Vietnam under one government. So much for our dedication to democracy. It wasn't the Chinese and Russians that started the whole thing. It was the French with their old world colonialism and then the Americans with their imperialism and savagery.

Where in history did the communist ever destroy democracy? In Cuba Castro did not destroy democracy, he destroyed a hateful gangster police state (Batista) controlled by Washington. In China before the communists took power there was no democracy, only fascism and Japanese colonialism. In Vietnam they didn't get rid of democracy, they got rid of French colonialism and American domination. In Nicaragua the communist got rid of a hateful Somoza dynasty/dictatorship controlled by the USA. In Chile President Allende honored the constitution; it was Pinochet the dictator who destroyed the democracy. In Russia Lenin did not destroy democracy. There was none under Czarism and Kerensky.

Originally Posted by resist arrest

You are a right-wing fanatic. Vietnam was a colony of the French. The U.S.A. aided the French in reconquering Vietnam after WW II by giving France aid (i.e. money, military equipment and intelligence). The French imperialists were defeated at Dien Bien Phu. Then comes in Uncle Sam and says, "Forget the fact that we helped the French reconquer you and make you into their colony again; we're here to promote democracy now." Even their puppet Diem was murdered by the Americans because he was such an embarassment. The workers of the world have no country. Revolution or death!!!! While the state exists there is no freedom, when there is freedom there will be no state. Lenin, The State and Revolution

The Impossible Victory: Vietnam by Howard Zinn

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Diem_dead.jpg

That's a pretty image. Now tell me, how do you know that the Americans did this? Is this another conspiracy theory? Were you a hippie? Did you scream and spit on soldiers? Did you call them baby killers even though you've never been to Nam? Do you believe in self-control? Do you think the "kill mode" is a lightswitch than can be voluntarily flipped on and off?
Tell me Oracle of Conspiracies, who taught you this anti-government attitude? Was it your mommy? Was she a criminal? Did she care about the effects her habits would have on you? What did you fetch from the grocery store? Medicine? Tell me son, did your mommy tell you that the government was so evil?
Or was it the streets? Were you thrown out by apathetic people? Did the streets raise you? Were they nurturing? Loving? Kind? Compassionate? Did they teach you that if it wasn't for the government you'd have a nice bed to sleep on?
Or maybe it was a communist? A Vietkong? LSD was popular among the hippies, was it? Tell me, who told you that the Americans killed that guy? Was it a hippie? A communist? Was it the LSD that told you that?
If government are so evil, then why not destroy them? It's what you want, as you've stated. Tell me, comrade, would you enjoy living in an "every-man-for-himself" world. Would it be nice to live in a place where heights of disorganization render progress impossible? Would you be content to live in a world where a ban on stealing would destroy the economy? For that matter, would it be possible to issue a ban on stealing?
If you hate democracy so much, why don't you let King Obama I make your decisions for you? Tell me, if the US is so evil, then why do you live here? Would you be happier working in a Chinese factory? A "volunteer labor" camp in Siberia? Would you want to hold a job in North Korea? If communism is so good...
Would you want to hold a job in the communist Paradise of North Vietnam? Can you prove to me that we intentionally kept the communists from winning the elections? If so, that's pretty sad. I'm pretty disappointed that my evil rotten government (that you want to provide your healthcare and educational benefits, by the way) has failed to reduce my wages to 2¢ an hour.
What a savage my friend is for trying to aide that guy who was getting mugged in an alley. I called him back and scolded him for trying to stop that poor innocent mugger. I gave him an apology. Two seconds later I was punched in the face and my friend tried to defend me. I got angry at him and am now screaming for him to leave that mugger who is currently trying to attack me alone. If my friend lets go, that mugger will give up. Life really is just like a Brinks home security commercial, where the attacker kicks your door in, but pees himself and feels when he hears a burglar alarm that makes no more noise than he did when he kicked the door in. Welcome to dreamland.

Originally Posted by resist arrest

Where in history did the communist ever destroy democracy?

Tsk tsk tsk. Did you forget North Korea so quickly?

In Cuba Castro did not destroy democracy, he destroyed a hateful gangster police state (Batista) controlled by Washington.

Do you have any way of getting info? How one could conclude that Cuba is a democracy just boggles my mind.

Fidel Castro is the worst violator of human rights in the Third World today.The Cuban dictatorship has curtailed the republic´s free press and banned strikes. Critics and opponents of the government, including journalists, human rights activists and members of opposition political parties, are arrested and some are convicted and imprisoned. Fidel Castro claims that demonstrations against him are led “subversives” and people under the influence of the United States.

Didn't you know that the photographer Cristobal Herrera Ulashkevich was forced to leave Cuba? Why? Because he captured two crucial images of Castro´s health slide:his fainting spell while making a speech in 2001 and his dramatic fall another speech in October 2004.Cristobal Herrera once said, “I am condemned to forced exile. The Cuban government barred me from returning to my country,without explanations.We had no other option left.This is the price for doing photojournalist in Cuba”.

The Cuban dictatorship have destroyed traditional Cuban society, culture,and systems, in an attempt to build a communist society.

For another thing, Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz was the best ally of Mengistu Haile Mariam,who was dictator of Ethiopia from 1974 to 1991. During this period of time, Fidel Castro Ruz sent 4000 soldiers to Ethiopia. Thousands of people were killed by Cuban soldiers, many of them reportedly extra judicially executed when unarmed or after having been captured.

Weren't you aware that the per capita on the island isn't even US$ 1,560, making it one of the poorest areas on Earth?

Weren't you informed that one of the Cuba´s longest-serving political prisoners, Francisco Chaviano, who was chairman of the Cuban Civil Rights, was released in August 2007? He said: “I spent five years stuck in a cell without seeing the sun, two years without receiving visitors and four years without conjugal visits”.Since then he has continued to criticise the Cuban dictatorship, risking imprisonment and even death.

Comrade, you've made me feel naive; I've never seen this level of ignorance before!

In China before the communists took power there was no democracy, only fascism and Japanese colonialism.

Yeah, 2¢ an hour is OK, isn't it?

In Vietnam they didn't get rid of democracy, they got rid of French colonialism and American domination.

Let's give that guy a Klondike bar! Better yet, let's give him an award for his fair leadership!

In Nicaragua the communist got rid of a hateful Somoza dynasty/dictatorship controlled by the USA. In Chile President Allende honored the constitution; it was Pinochet the dictator who destroyed the democracy.

Once again, this boggles my mind how you can blatantly ignore the massive violations of human rights these people commit.

In Russia Lenin did not destroy democracy. There was none under Czarism and Kerensky.

Stalin did, though he was just the guy they needed for WWII. Obama would've handed Russia to the Axis on a Silver Platter. And you would've supported that decision.

Originally Posted by Ethmi

Fidel Castro is the worst violator of human rights in the Third World today.The Cuban dictatorship has curtailed the republic´s free press and banned strikes. Critics and opponents of the government, including journalists, human rights activists and members of opposition political parties, are arrested and some are convicted and imprisoned. Fidel Castro claims that demonstrations against him are led “subversives” and people under the influence of the United States.

Have Mugabe in Zimbabwe and Obango in Equitorial Guinea suddenly been overthrown?

What about the Burmese junta and Kim Jong-il?

What about our boy in Uzbekistan?

You're not even close.

Originally Posted by Ethmi

That's a pretty image. Now tell me, how do you know that the Americans did this? Is this another conspiracy theory? Were you a hippie? Did you scream and spit on soldiers? Did you call them baby killers even though you've never been to Nam? Do you believe in self-control? Do you think the "kill mode" is a lightswitch than can be voluntarily flipped on and off?
Tell me Oracle of Conspiracies, who taught you this anti-government attitude? Was it your mommy? Was she a criminal? Did she care about the effects her habits would have on you? What did you fetch from the grocery store? Medicine? Tell me son, did your mommy tell you that the government was so evil?
Or was it the streets? Were you thrown out by apathetic people? Did the streets raise you? Were they nurturing? Loving? Kind? Compassionate? Did they teach you that if it wasn't for the government you'd have a nice bed to sleep on?
Or maybe it was a communist? A Vietkong? LSD was popular among the hippies, was it? Tell me, who told you that the Americans killed that guy? Was it a hippie? A communist? Was it the LSD that told you that?

Your ad hominem attacks preclude me from engaging you in a worthwhile debate on the issues. You are nothing but a troll and so I will not be bothered with you any longer. I will print your responses to me for the day when I need extra toilet paper material.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Originally Posted by resist arrest

Your ad hominem attacks preclude me from engaging you in a worthwhile debate on the issues. You are nothing but a troll and so I will not be bothered with you any longer. I will print your responses to me for the day when I need extra toilet paper material.

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can tell that you dismissed the post below that. And I feel I can assume that you didn't read it. Odd that a paranoid conspiracy theorist / communist who concluded that communism has never led to dictatorship should accuse me of being a fanatic.

Originally Posted by chester

Have Mugabe in Zimbabwe and Obango in Equitorial Guinea suddenly been overthrown?

What about the Burmese junta and Kim Jong-il?

What about our boy in Uzbekistan?

You're not even close.

Kim Jong-il is a communist, you know.

Originally Posted by Ethmi

I can tell that you dismissed the post below that. And I feel I can assume that you didn't read it. Odd that a paranoid conspiracy theorist / communist who concluded that communism has never led to dictatorship should accuse me of being a fanatic.

I find you amusing---chuckle, chuckle, wink, wink--- and very misinformed. How can a real revolutionary movement not have a strong state (i.e. dictatorship) when the imperialists have always done their best to destroy it???? Name one communist government that has not been under siege by America and other countries.

To Fidel Castro
(by Pablo Neruda, Nobel Laureate, Song of Protest)

Fidel, Fidel, the people are grateful
for words in action and deeds that sing,
that is why I bring from far
a cup of my country’s wine:
it is the blood of a subterranean people
that from the shadows reaches your throat,
they are miners who have lived for centuries
extracting fire from the frozen land.
They go beneath the sea for coal
but on returning they are like ghosts:
they grew accustomed to eternal night,
the working-day light was robbed from them,
nevertheless here is the cup
of so much suffering and distances:
the happiness of imprisoned men
possessed by darkness and illusions
who from the inside of mines perceive
the arrival of spring and its fragrances
because they know that Man is struggling
to reach the amplest clarity.
And Cuba is seen by the Southern miners,
the lonely sons of la pampa,
the shepherds of cold in Patagonia,
the fathers of tin and silver,
the ones who marry cordilleras
extract the copper from Chuquicamata,
men hidden in buses
in populations of pure nostalgia,
women of the fields and workshops,
children who cried away their childhoods:
this is the cup, take it, Fidel.
It is full of so much hope
that upon drinking you will know your victory
is like the aged wine of my country
made not by one man but by many men
and not by one grape but by many plants:
it is not one drop but many rivers:
not one captain but many battles.
And they support you because you represent
the collective honor of our long struggle,
and if Cuba were to fall we would all fall,
and we would come to lift her,
and if she blooms with flowers
she will flourish with our own nectar.
And if they dare touch Cuba’s
forehead, by your hands liberated,
they will find people’s fists,
we will take out our buried weapons:
blood and pride will come to rescue,
to defend our beloved Cuba.