Fundamentally, Intelligent Design is nothing more than Animism. What is too complex to understand or explain now is credited to a higher being. That is absolutely no different from crediting lightning to Zeus, the rain to the Tlaloc, volcanic activity to Pele, so on and so forth. The reason those beliefs have died out is because people actually know what causes volcanic activity, lightning and the rainy seasons. All ID does is replace lightning with current modern day subjects. There is no principle difference.

If intelligent design was taught in schools in an honest fashion, it would be painfully clear that it is nothing more than Animism. With a complete lack of acceptance and hard rejection from the youth, ID would die a slow painful death as its believers would have no one to replace them.

So, I argue that among the educated IDers (who are using this for political gain) that they do not want ID taught in schools as it would destroy the movement. Instead, they want to use it as a cudgel against modern science for their own gain. Persecution complex if you will.

Oh no, it's not too complex for us to understand. So please explain to we simpletons how Intelligent Design is nothing more than animism. But first, here is the truth regarding this newest perverse propaganda you are promoting.

Your error in stating that Intelligent Design equals animism is the epitome of ignorance as you once again reveal how little you understand about that which you speak. Now I realize that you will take this evidence and squirm in 3 different directions as you insist you are right. But that wont change the fact that you are as wrong as only you are capable of being.

Greeks, Romans, Santeria, Voodoo, American Indians, Mayas, Witches, Ancestors, Hindus...

The "Primitive Religions" were born in the five Continents, more than 3,000 years ago, mostly in the form of "Animism", because they believed that everything has a "soul", an "anima" in Latin, a "spirit"... including animals, plants, rocks, mountains, rivers, stars... each "anima" is powerful, spiritual, that can help or hurt them, including the souls of the dead, the "ancestors".

For thousands of years they deified animals, stars, idols of any kind... and practiced Spiritism, witchcraft, divination, astrology... and they used magic, spells, enchantments, superstitions, prayers, amulets, talismans, charms... often with the worship of an Absolute, or the Great One...

Today Animism is represented, among others, by the Mormons, Hinduism and the New Age. They proclaim that every human is God, and their practices will help each one to realize it.

The Bible destroys this way of thinking in the first verse of he Bible:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen.1:1). There is only one God, everything else in the heavens or earth are "creatures of God". The sun and the moon are "creatures of God", and the rocks and animals and oceans, and all the mountains and stars, and each man and woman is also a "creature of God", is not God.

But they usually did not care much about a Creator God, only about the "spirits" that can help or hurt them... and what they sometimes called "gods", are "demons"... or simply a "lie"... and this is why the Bible condemns them with very strong words: abominations to God, stone them to death, the fire shall burn them (Deut.18, Lev.20, Isa.47).
- 10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. (Deut.18:10-12)
- 27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' " (Lev. 20:7).
- 12Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail. 13Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. 14Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. (Is.47:12-13)

God, for the Animist, is not a person... as for the Hindu, god is the Energy, the Force, the Power, the Universal Mind, the Absolute, the Unknown, the Divine Being... is not a "he" but an "it"... it is not somebody but something... but something powerful able to get wonderful things for you using Magic... and worshiping it!... yes, worshiping the Force or the Energy...

Since god is not a person, there are no revelations from a non-person... you never find in Animism or Wicca or Hinduism, God said... Yahweh calls...

The gods never existed, they are the product of novels or the imagination... they are myths, legends... but they never existed and they do not exist today.

The big problem is that "Today" an estimated 40% of the world's population is animistic (Van Rheenen), including all kinds of occultism, often in syncretism with Christianity, Islam, Buddhism...

The Animism is attractive because infuses the sacred into the real life, and mainly, because offers people a way to cope with one's everyday needs and problems: Healing of an illness, to be successful in a business, or in love, or to find a job, or to restore a soured relationship, to find a mate, to gain guidance for the future...

The animist views the "formal religions" as being relevant with respect to "ultimate" issues, but irrelevant when it comes to addressing the "immediate" issues of everyday life... which is totally wrong!, because Christianity, Islam, and all "formal religions" deal with issues of every day's life... but this is the reason why a Christian or a Jew go to the witch or consult the Zodiac... They go to church on Saturday or Sunday to take care of their soul, and they go to the witch or astrologer on Monday to take care of their business or illness... absolutely wrong!...

Come to Jesus... Believe in him!... is the solution of all the problems in this life, and on top of the glorious life on earth, he offers you eternal life of joy in Heaven.


The World View of Animism:

Pantheism is the first logical consequence of Animism: All the world is divine: A mountain is god, a rock, an animal... you are god!... though you can't make stars not even atoms, but you are god!... a planet, and even a cockroach is god!... they are the "idols" often mentioned in the Bible.

Polytheism is the next obvious consequence: There are thousands of gods... the concept of 333 million deities is believed to emphasize the fundamental doctrine of Animism, Hinduism, Wicca...

The first verse of the Bible contradicts these views: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... so, in the Bible, there is one God, a person, and everything else in the world are creatures of God... God created and is the soul and life and is inside everything, but everything is not God... there is only one God, Creator.

Of course, for Animists or Hindus, the aim of this life is to stop the relentless and frightful reincarnation, and become nothingness, not-a-person, but the drop of water in the ocean of the Absolute... for a Christian, an eternal life of joy is waiting, and not like a drop of water, but as a person, recognizable by God and by every neighbor... a person!, an individual!, eternally!, as God is an eternal Person!... eternally in Hell or in Heaven!...

Religion and Cults - Animism

So you see, those who worship idols and such are the practitioners of animism. Judaism and evangelical christianity condemn such practices as abominations before God. And that is because the God of the Old and New Testament also condemns such practices throughout His word. So you have once again blatantly and ignorantly misrepresented what the bible and God Himself stands for and represents to us as His Truths. So in short order I have easily proven that according to what animism is, it plays no actual part in the scriptural perspective of how, why and who Man is according to our relationship with the living God.

Some one around here in another thread said if intelligent design were taught in school it would be the shortest class ever.

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Archangel fails to understand the basis of Animism (as usual).

Animism seeks to explain things it cannot by assigning them supernatural associations. Often that is done through a soul. The principle argument I've argued in their similarities is that of why they do such a thing. What cannot be explained now or its relation to the greater whole is credited to a supernatural being, a being or set of beings that exists not entirely of the natural world. Where ancient animists believed that lightning was associated with the Gods, and that Volcanoes were the manifestation of Pele, the principle is the same. What cannot be explained or understood now is of a higher being. How did this rock get here? Where did deer come from? How do they exist in the larger picture? Animists assign souls, or anima to the inanimate and animate objects as a way to place what they do not understand into a coherent organized picture.

Intelligent design is no different. Only that it has replaced lightning, volcanoes and rain with the human eye and origin of the life. While it may not use the same identical concepts of anima to inanimate object, the core logic is identical.

What is too complex to understand or explain now is of a higher being.

It could be done in one sentence:

"Don't know = Goddidit"

Takes about 5 seconds if you say it slow.

Oh, I see now, you must pervert and completely redefine what animism is in order to apply it to your corruption of what christianity is according to the bible. I have accurately defined what animism is above in comparison to the Old and New Testament which it has nothing in common with. But in usual fashion you will claim it is me who doesn't understand when it is you who must corrupt the truth with the lies and distortions you tell.

BTW, your explanation above which I have posted in its entirety is nothing more than self indulgent gibberish. http://www.religion-cults.com/Ancien...sm/Animism.htm

Do IDers actually want Intelligent Design taught in schools?

Tell me, where did I mention Christanity in this thread?

Furthermore, in the other thread regarding ID, I was discussing ID in itself.

Paranoia, paranoia everyone is coming to get you eh Arch?

Furthermore, as stated, the core logic of ID is the same core logic of Animism. I noticed you did not address that.

So you think that ID is actually Christanity?

[quote]But in usual fashion you will claim it is me who doesn't understand when it is you who must corrupt the truth with the lies and distortions you tell.

And that refutes what I said.....

How?

Come up with your own original material for a change.

Is more dishonesty and distorting of reality all we can expect from you? Isn't Intelligent Design defined universally as the biblical account for how life came to be? So by you are saying that, and I quote you: Fundamentally, Intelligent Design is nothing more than Animism. You are directly stating that the biblical creation account is representative of the pagan belief of animism. This is a complete distortion of what ID represents which is based on the creation account as outlined in Genesis. GET IT? You are dead wrong in every conceivable way, but being the liar you are you will refuse to just admit you are completely redefining what animism is in order to assert it has anything in common with ID. Here, read what animism is again. It has no bearing at all with what ID proposes. Religion and Cults - Animism

According to whom?

While many Muslims and Christians are using ID to sneak back creationism into schools, there are plenty of other people who accept ID while rejecting the Biblical faiths. They credit everything from a pantheon view where all life is 'God' to the strange view of life itself guiding its own evolution, none of which are even close to heretical beliefs about Biblical creation. They all reject that things occurred naturally and create something other then natural causes. Therefore, it is stupid to argue that ID = Biblical Creationism. I'm talking about ID as a whole rather than specific Behe types or Discovery Institute views of ID.

You made a big assumption.

See above. How can you see through all of that egg on your face? Seriously. You're making a mess. There's that much egg.

LOL.

Still not addressing the core logic eh? Nothing you wrote addresses what I actually stated. Furthermore, instead of hoping that some random link you found off the website addresses a post, how you about specifically quote it to the part of my post you feel is incorrect?

Notice I have addressed the anima issue. You fail to deal with the reason for this and the core logic it shares with Intelligent Design.

Try again, and come up with your own original material for a change.

If you can show that Intelligent Design attributes a soul to plants, rocks, trees and all types of inanimate objects, and natural phenomena in causing the creation of the world and everything in it, then I will agree with you because that is what animism asserts. But you can't do that because it is a patently ridiculous proposition. Intelligent Design proposes that God, an all powerful intelligent being created all that is, not that everything created by the intelligent designer has a soul which animism clearly proposes. You must corrupt what ID is in order to equate it to animism. No matter how you slice it ID does NOT propose that everything in creation has a soul so even discussing animism with ID is to corrupt what ID is and represents from the outset.

ID rests squarely on the Animist concept that since the creation of themselves and the world around them was beyond their skills or understanding, it must therefore have been a magical powerful being who did it. ID is a primitive belief dressed in modern clothing, and it shows.

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" ... It's not as though he proved anything, he only refuted my evidence. ..." Archangel 04.01.09

" ... this egregiously ignorant christian ... Archangel 03.09.09

“Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil.”

^ This is animism above ^. Show where ID asserts any of these beliefs at all or stop lying about any practical similarities between animism and Intelligent Design.

LOL. Penfold (and I) are discussing the reasons for why Animism assigned its animistic beliefs and thus its core logic. You are stuck at the surface as to why Animism did rather than move below the superficial into its core logic and principles. Instead of talking about why you are only talking about what. Hence why we laugh at you. You are trying to argue that the superficial appearance of Animism negates our arguments about the primary core logic and principles of why Animism did what it did. You are arguing that the ocean is calm by looking at the surface while we are discussing the turbulence of underwater currents. We move below the surface, while you are stuck.

Arch just doesn't understand what we are talking about.

But that's pretty much normal.

You still don't get the fundamental core logic.

I said this before: You fail to deal with the reason for this and the core logic it shares with Intelligent Design.

And you just don't get it.

Like I said...
^ This is animism above ^. Show where ID asserts any of these beliefs at all or stop lying about any practical similarities between animism and Intelligent Design.

Your core logic is as bogus as your irrational and illogical reasoning which is corrupting what Intelligent Design represents. Your attempt to align it with animism is just wrong on so many levels. So don't accuse me of not getting it because I understand the language better than you ever will, you sanctimonious punk. I just disagree with your premise and I have proven it clearly. That you refuse to accept that evidence reflects on your lack of intellect, not mine.

Do you believe ID and animism share a core logic to a greater degree than do evolution and atheism?

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Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they can in prison?