Originally Posted by gansao

I believe that Christianity could of strayed from Christs true teachings after Paul got involved.
The problem with modern Cof E churches are they are fighting over non issues like women preachers.The fundies are full of hatred and the Catholics are archaic IMO.
The Jehovahs witnesses are quite impressive in some ways but spoil it by some of their assertions on blood and the identity of Christ.
I dont believe there is a church today that embodies the true teachings of Christ because we probably dont know them in total.

So that's about 70 AD or so.

Those who heard the words from the mouth of Jesus, did not even grasp the full meaning of his teachings. And so we have Peter, denying his Master.
We have Judas, the zealot, trying to force the hand of his master, trying to control his Master.

On one level, mainstream Christianity speaks for all Christians, as a group (I would argue).
On another level, each Christian must have their own relationship with Christ, and no church speaks for them.

I do not think you can give 'Christian Principles' a pass on things like Manifest Destiny, simply because you disagree.

Is Christianity a manmade institution, or an individual's personal relationship with his god.
Well, both.
Your beliefs do not get to define principles for most Christains, only for yourself.

Originally Posted by BeHereNow

So that's about 70 AD or so.

Those who heard the words from the mouth of Jesus, did not even grasp the full meaning of his teachings. And so we have Peter, denying his Master.
We have Judas, the zealot, trying to force the hand of his master, trying to control his Master.

On one level, mainstream Christianity speaks for all Christians, as a group (I would argue).
On another level, each Christian must have their own relationship with Christ, and no church speaks for them.

I do not think you can give 'Christian Principles' a pass on things like Manifest Destiny, simply because you disagree.

Is Christianity a manmade institution, or an individual's personal relationship with his god.
Well, both.
Your beliefs do not get to define principles for most Christains, only for yourself.

This is true and exactly the opposite position of most if not all so called Christian churches...and quite right, we cant have a church full of worshippers each with their own interpretation of the teachings accorded to the thing they worship..
Churches become tribal and warlike( which paradoxically is essential for them to survive as a church) and the successful tribes attribute their success to gods sponsorship of their doctrine.
It doesnt take a big step from that to deduce other doctrines( and therefore other tribes) are ungodly and inferior.
None of this has anything to do with the original teachings of the religion.
What it shows is that the first casualty of an emerging church is the religion that created it

Yes there is still racism alive in America today. Evidence that proves this is that 1) Blacks with the same education/experience are paid less then whites
2) Blacks get longer crime sentences then whites for the same crimes
3) Blacks get worse loans then comparable whites.
4) A study found that if a black submitted the same essay then a white the black person got a worse grade

Originally Posted by starcraftzzz

Yes there is still racism alive in America today. Evidence that proves this is that 1) Blacks with the same education/experience are paid less then whites
2) Blacks get longer crime sentences then whites for the same crimes
3) Blacks get worse loans then comparable whites.
4) A study found that if a black submitted the same essay then a white the black person got a worse grade

What evidence ?

Oh yes I'm afraid to say that racism is still very much alive and strong in America and it's being exercised by some people who have no business being racist in nature. Police, politicians, the military, reverends, large crowds, even some animals. And if it isn't racism or sexism.

Unfortunately racism seems to be inherent to humanity and not something that can be stamped out simply because we want it to be done away with.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Unfortunately racism seems to be inherent to humanity and not something that can be stamped out simply because we want it to be done away with.

Inherent? What kind of nonsense is that?

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Oh yes I'm afraid to say that racism is still very much alive and strong in America and it's being exercised by some people who have no business being racist in nature. Police, politicians, the military, reverends, large crowds, even some animals. And if it isn't racism or sexism.

Unfortunately racism seems to be inherent to humanity and not something that can be stamped out simply because we want it to be done away with.

Originally Posted by Freedom

Inherent? What kind of nonsense is that?

This is why I love 4forums. Let the games begin

Originally Posted by Freedom

Inherent? What kind of nonsense is that?

It's not nonsense Freedom dude, it's a simple fact of life. Human beings by their nature have preferences for certain things in certain ways and they have a dislike for matters that are different. Whether it's skin color, hair color, country of origin or even location in a state there will always be something that can keep people from existing in harmony and at odds with each other simply because they don't see exactly eye to eye.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

It's not nonsense Freedom dude, it's a simple fact of life. Human beings by their nature have preferences for certain things in certain ways and they have a dislike for matters that are different. Whether it's skin color, hair color, country of origin or even location in a state there will always be something that can keep people from existing in harmony and at odds with each other simply because they don't see exactly eye to eye.

You speak as if you weren't a human being. Let's talk about you. Are you inherently racist and how do you know it isn't a result of what you believe?

If you ask me, what keeps people from existing in harmony is ideas like discord is inevitable. Such ideas prompt people to accept discord, and more importantly to ignore possible sources because they don't think it could be something alterable.

Finally whats you theory for me? I am not human or am I lying to myself?

Originally Posted by Freedom

You speak as if you weren't a human being.

I'm existential.

Let's talk about you. Are you inherently racist and how do you know it isn't a result of what you believe?

Everybody is racist to one degree or another no matter what they say. Whether it's based on personal observations and dislikes for what's seen, or the environment they're raised in there's always something racist about a person.

If you ask me, what keeps people from existing in harmony is ideas like discord is inevitable. Such ideas prompt people to accept discord, and more importantly to ignore possible sources because they don't think it could be something alterable.

Freedom dude it's not really a matter of discord being inevitable, it's a matter of it being unavoidable. Somebody doesn't even have to realize that there are racist tendencies controlling or influencing their actions for a racist act to occur. It's not an excuse but a basic fact of nature. Racial discord can't be changed anymore than you can give up your need for oxygen.

Finally whats you theory for me? I am not human or am I lying to myself?

If you're telling yourself that you're not racist then you're not wanting to admit to what's basic human nature. Xenophobia is inherent to the design whether you realize it or not. It can be fear, hatred or dislike but everybody's got something to them that makes them dislike different people.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

I'm existential

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Everybody is racist to one degree or another no matter what they say. Whether it's based on personal observations and dislikes for what's seen, or the environment they're raised in there's always something racist about a person.

Let me define what I mean when I say racism.

the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man’s genetic lineage—the notion that a man’s intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry.

Do you do this? What would you say if I tell you that I don't, that I am not tempted to; that I do not have to exercise the slightest will to keep from doing?

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Freedom dude it's not really a matter of discord being inevitable, it's a matter of it being unavoidable.

I don't understand the distinction, what do you mean?

Originally Posted by Tabbi

Somebody doesn't even have to realize that there are racist tendencies controlling or influencing their actions for a racist act to occur. It's not an excuse but a basic fact of nature. Racial discord can't be changed anymore than you can give up your need for oxygen.

Self-induced ignorance, even of the source of one's own motivations is common. That does not mean it's universal.

If someone commits a racist act (or any other kind of act) and when asked why they say "I don't know just felt that way" I do not blame human nature I blame the beliefs that person holds but which he/she has not consciously associated with their decisions.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

If you're telling yourself that you're not racist then you're not wanting to admit to what's basic human nature. Xenophobia is inherent to the design whether you realize it or not. It can be fear, hatred or dislike but everybody's got something to them that makes them dislike different people.

Why would I refuse to admit something about my own character? Why should I believe in something for which there is no evidence, in this case in my behavior and thoughts?

How do you know it's human nature? and if I can lie to myself about being a racist why can't others lie to themselves about the source of their racism?

I'm not meaning to argue with you Freedom dude I'm just telling you how it is by virtue of nature. If you wanna claim you're not racist that's fine, tell yourself whatever you need to hear.

Everyone is born racist, you have to work at it to not be racist, conscious thought is what is required to not be racist.

It's probably related to the evolution of the false positive reaction.

At some point in our evolution racism was a trait that somehow helped humans survive, or it could be the side effect of some other inheritable survival trait.

It is those who are racist which are closest to being slaves of their animal past.

Racism is yet another trait from our evolutionary past that does not serve us anymore, like a taste for sweets, fatty foods, religion and overeating.

Originally Posted by Tabbi

I'm not meaning to argue with you Freedom dude I'm just telling you how it is by virtue of nature. If you wanna claim you're not racist that's fine, tell yourself whatever you need to hear.

I'm meaning to argue with you, if you want to claim everyone's a racist, that's not fine; but all I can do about it is argue and that requires your cooperation.

Originally Posted by Accipiter

Everyone is born racist, you have to work at it to not be racist, conscious thought is what is required to not be racist.

Conscious thought is required to know any truth; Obviously one can reason oneself out of instinctual action, but I doubt also the existence of the instinct for I have never felt it.