Originally Posted by Symbiote

You said there should be a set standard of care that should not fall. Not that people are limited to that set standard.

You said "People in my mind are entitled to everything to extend their life for themselves and their families.

The "set standard" seems to be a token phrase that doesn't actually place any limits of any kind, whatsoever, on the amount of healthcare that needs to be supplied.

I totaly agree with you

Having access to good health certainly enhances happiness.

Originally Posted by jazyjason

In hearing the ongoing debate and squabble over health care I had to wonder is health or rather the care of someone, and their family a matter of civil rights?

Is not a person entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

It may sound more poetic in threesome but of those only liberty need be mentioned, as the first is incorrect and the last a consequence of the second.

Originally Posted by jazyjason

And if all men are created equal should it thus be so that all men have the equal right to then be sound in mind and body as well?

No, no one has a right to any state of being, to life, happiness or any other good thing except liberty from the interference of others.

Morality allows no other.

One does not have the right to be sound in mind and body, merely to pursue that state without being stopped or impeded by others.

Using the premise of equality is an old trick of mixing something your audience is likely to believe in with something they may in an attempt to 'sweeten the deal'.

"And if all men are created equal should it this be so that all men have the equal right to torture and kill each other?"

Originally Posted by jazyjason

If we truly are to uphold these principles are not we then the citizens responsible to ensure that all men be cared for equally?

If we truly uphold equality why do we not name everyone the same thing?

It is a purely semantic movement to use the word equality in senses that it is not meant.

Equality in social morality means the equality of rights, nothing more.

This equality is true, all men have the same rights, and if any man had the right to be cared for all men would.

Originally Posted by jazyjason

That all people have a right to health, longevity, and well being?

None do.

The rights of man did not come as a result of some bright fellow deciding they should exist and so also they cannot be altered now because some bright fellow thinks they should.

Rights are not merely a manufacture of modern social thinking nor collective evolution.

Rights are the rules, terms, and principles of a morality that is established solely by the fundamental nature of sentient reasoning beings living together in the same universe.

They do not exist because of an electromagnetic field but because of a web of self-consistent inescapable logic which applies to anything that can use logic.

Originally Posted by jazyjason

Is this not what the current health care debate SHOULD be about?

Yes it is.

Originally Posted by jazyjason

Should it be more of a matter of upholding these principles than meaningless bitter struggle? Have we as a nation become so divided in our own self interests that we have failed to see the bigger picture?

Or the biggest picture.

Originally Posted by jazyjason

That this is not a matter of money, or compromise, or taxes, or choice, or public, private, trigger, or option. But it is the most simple matter of all.

That value of a human life.

Philosophy for the win!