Does anyone have or know anyone with one of these? I have heard a few bad comments about them, especially when they first came out, but for the most part everything I have heard over the last 2 years seem to be great. I ask because I am really considering getting one when our 99 Cav goes. (yes, we still have a 99 Cav, and it gets close to 34mpg with a few simple and cheap one time modifications that have more than payed for themselves over the life of the car). I'm not ashamed to admit that I am a real miser when it comes to forking out my dough, and with present gas prices as is and the prospect of $4 gas this summer, I just can't stop thinking about 50mpg. I do have a large SUV that we use for long trips (we have 2 large dogs and a child), and it used to be my car to use all the time. But over the last year, days when I work and she does not, I have started to take the Cav for the better mileage. I have already realized a significant savings between 15mpg and 34mpg.

Can anyone break this vehicle down to good points and bad points?

__________________
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

Long is the way
And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

If being environmentally responsible, and leaving as small a carbon footprint as possible is your ultimate goal; which I believe to be the case for you focussing on the Prius, or any Hybrid, then please read this article and I believe you'll realize that the Prius is not the way to go.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5OqTu...ticle_ID=14304

PRIUS OUTDOES HUMMER IN ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE

The Toyota Prius, the flagship car for the environmentally conscious, is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America, and takes more combined energy to produce than a Hummer, says the Recorder.

Consider:

The nickel contained in the Prius' battery is mined and smelted at a plant in Ontario that has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the 'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers.
Dubbed the Superstack, the factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.
Acid rain around the area was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside, according to Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin.
After leaving the plant, the nickel travels to Europe, China, Japan and United States, a hardly environmentally sound round the world trip for a single battery.
But that isn't even the worst part, says the Record. According to a study by CNW Marketing, the total combined energy to produce a Prius (consisting of electrical, fuel, transportation, materials and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime), is greater than what it takes to produce a Hummer:

The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles -- the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles.
That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use almost 50 percent less combined energy doing it.
Source: Chris Demorro, "Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environ

Here's the link to the original story in the Recorder by Chris Demorro.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5OqTu...p%3fNewsID=188

If you look at the detailed analysis though, it becomes clear that the high energy cost for the prius is an artifact of low usage before retirement of the early models, rather than any feature of the car itself. There is no engineering reason for the prius to not last beyond 100 000 miles, so the use of that figure is simply a statistical convenience rather than a practical necessity. It's also not clear whether the fuel costs of running the actual vehicle are taken into account or just the costs of suppying it with parts etc. Then there is the fact that the prius is actually a damn heavy car and the real future of environmentally friendly vehicle is in lightweight, small, all-electric vehicles.

__________________
“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist” - Helder Camara
“It is not the will of God for some to have everything and others to have nothing. This cannot be God” - Oscar Romero
"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder" - Einstein
"We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him" - CS Lewis

Or look into any of these claims that seem ridiculous on their faces before swallowing them whole.

linky 1
linky 2

In short: No, the Hummer is not more energy-efficient/environmentally friendly than the Prius.

__________________
Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

Any evidence to support this claim? From what I could find, the batteries used in Hybrids are expected to last for, and warranted to take 1000 charges before being depleted. If someone drives it every day as a commuters sole vehicle, and since the battery charges itself as a normal result of driving it, then that battery would be fully expended in approximately 2.73 years time.

"The report’s major indicator is total energy use per mile traveled, which is calculated by dividing the energy cost by the lifetime mileage. The most obvious manipulation of data is the company’s choice of total vehicle lifetime miles for each vehicle. For reasons not explained in the report, the Hummer H3 is assumed to travel 207,000 miles in its lifetime. Even more remarkable, the Hummer H1 is assumed to travel 379,000 lifetime miles. The Prius is assumed to travel only 109,000 miles.
"After readers of “Dust to Dust” questioned Prius’s assumed lifetime miles, CNW provided a note revealing that they had assumed early Priuses traveled only 6,700 miles per year, which translates into the low lifetime mileage assumption used in the study."

link
The "Dust to Dust" study assumes that the Hummer stays on the road for 34.96 years.

"In at least seven states, Toyota offers a 150,000-mile warranty on the Prius' hybrid components, including the battery—it's tough to fathom the company's actuaries agreeing to such a warranty if that 109,000-mile figure was correct." [bold added]

[source: Slate article linked above]

__________________
Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

I have seen that claim before, and a little research has been enough to make me believe it is bunk. And no, you seem to have missed the point of my post. My reason for looking at the Prius is not quite as noble as "reducing my carbon footprint". (I really hate that buzz-word). I'm more concerned with saving money on gas, which looks as if it will hit $4 a gallon or more in the forseable future, and I doubt is ever going to get cheaper. I'm not being an environmentalist, I'm being cheap...and there is a difference.

__________________
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

Long is the way
And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

If it's fuel efficiency and reliability you're looking for, then here's a great little car for the money.

http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=B...00000077728960

Here's an even better choice:

http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/taurus/

From a purely asthetic POV, the Prius is outright ugly and belongs in the same heap of cr@p as the Pontiac Aztek, the AMC Pacer and the AMC Gremlin! I wouldn't be caught dead in one.

__________________
HAVING MORE FUN THAN A HUMAN BEING SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE!

America's Truth Detector
The Doctor of Democracy
The Harmless Loveable Little Fuzzball
The Man Who Runs America
MahaRushi
ElRushbo

That's kind of the point. Drive a Prius and make it easier to continue living.

__________________
Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds that crawl.

How exactly would a Taurus be better for someone looking for a very fuel efficient and realtively cheap car?

I actually kinda like the styling of the Prius. I guess it's kinda one of those things you either love or hate. And for the record...I would never be caught dead in a Fix Or Repair Daily either (aka: Found On Roadside Dead), or most other American autos for that matter. Nissan, Toyota, and Honda make a far superior product for less money in equivalent vehicles.

__________________
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

Long is the way
And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

Perhaps the concern of appearance over function is a problem for American cars. I remember how the VW bug used to advertise that the car was "ugly as ever, beautiful just beautiful" as it promoted the mechanical improvements of the car over cosmetics.
ad here.

Does form follow function?

__________________
Humphrey's Law of the Efficacy of Prayer
In a dangerous world there will always be more people around whose prayers for their own safety have been answered than those whose prayers have not.

I don't even like the styling of the Taurus. I find most American made cars to be pretty "plain jane" when it comes to styling. Function, reliability, and practicality are far more important to me when it comes to vehicles. Aside from my Cavalier, I have never owned an American car that has ever lived up to my expectations. Since I got my Nissan, I am now a Japanese car guy...and I will probably be until American auto makers wise up a little.

__________________
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun)". -Eddie Izzard

Long is the way
And hard, that out of Hell leads up to Light. -Milton

If none of the economics concerned you, sure.

But if you bought that over the prius you'd suffer this:
1) Massive comparative depreciation
2) Poor used selling price
3) Much higher repair fees, and higher occurance of them
4) Much shorter life span
5) Higher instances of reliability
6) Higher gas prices

But how many people have thousands of dollars to blow on a car without considering the economics of it?

__________________
"You are, of course, free to make your own calls on how much rationality you want to impose upon yourself." - Kronus

I am driving a 13 year old Saturn with 238,000 miles. Last week I calculated that I was getting 30 MPG.

If you are going to keep the car as long as I have, resale is not an issue.

If I were to get a new car I could perhaps realize a small savings in gas cost. That would more than be outweighed by the cost of property tax, car payments, and increased insurance cost.

My car has been paid for for over 9 years. At $300/month that is well over $30,000 dollars in car payment savings. Add to that the savings realized by lower insurance rates, and lack of property taxes and the Prius looks bad indeed.

__________________
Mutz (E)

Your Life Is Not My Fault